4 stager

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Smokebreak
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Re: 4 stager

Post by Smokebreak »

Here's a clip with the amp running stages 1>2>4. Basically 1959 with an added stage upfront. I added some peaker switching which uses 1 on-off-on SPDT. It's quite fun to add parallel resistance to one of the caps that suits to thicken things up.

I consider this a "medium gain" thing. The first part of the clip switches between no peaker, 470p, then 2n2, all gain full up, other controls at noon. The rest is just finding sweet spots, gain backed off a bit. Of course the other peaker is the standard 470k//470 between 2>4(or 2 and 3 in standard Marshall fare). Reasonable bedroom levels here. I'll get to the high gain stuff in a bit. It's real important to me to get some classic sounds, first...at least how I interpret them ;)
https://soundcloud.com/jeremyslemenda/f ... asher19591

I'd love to see the equations applied here, to see what exactly I've done.

Cheers, Jeremy
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EtherealWidow
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Re: 4 stager

Post by EtherealWidow »

That sounds really good, dude. Really rich. I think my favorite, judging from the clips would be the 470p. Just enough edge. I'd love to see the equations applied as well. I have a Hi Octane that sounds great with gain 1 dimed and gain 2 to taste and I'd love to see what's going on there.
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martin manning
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Re: 4 stager

Post by martin manning »

Merlin Blencowe's Designing Preamps book has a very concise tutorial on RC filters that makes a complicated subject easy for the purpose at hand. The page posted by Roberto above is a much abbreviated analysis of the "peaker" by Laplace transform, where s is the complex variable j 2Pi f.
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Reeltarded
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Re: 4 stager

Post by Reeltarded »

I think you should Jose that thing, even without clippers!

:)
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Smokebreak
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Re: 4 stager

Post by Smokebreak »

Thanks for the feedback guys. The peaker arrangement is kinda neat because you can bridge the gap between the switching points by dialing up the treble and/or mids, to an extent.
I've been meaning to jump to that chapter, Martin, I think it's high time.
I'm actually considering drilling another hole for a "Jose" switch. A short accross the 470K gets me there! Sorta :) 4 switches and counting..
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cbass
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Re: 4 stager

Post by cbass »

Reeltarded wrote:I think you should Jose that thing, even without clippers!

:)
That reminds of a joke that's probably to offensive to tell.
Smokebreak
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Re: 4 stager

Post by Smokebreak »

Ok then we'll call this the Rusty Debbie. This is everything cranked : https://soundcloud.com/jeremyslemenda/f ... -high-gain
At this point I'm a bit fixated on how tight the power amp is in relation to the preamp. I like it loose but this is a good balance for me, because it also needs to be a little tight, eh? How tight should it be? That reminds me of another joke :wink:
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Reeltarded
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Re: 4 stager

Post by Reeltarded »

I like the grit. More bite! More bite!!

Enola II is a little bit like your amp, sort of. 1st stage 270k plate with 100p bypass. 2k7/.68 on 1 and 2. 470k/470p into the gain before the no. 2 stage. Then either to 3 (820R) or to switchable added stage (10k) then the normal no. 3.

This is produced but you get the drift prolly. Soundcloud ate the low A that is the E.

3 stages:

https://soundcloud.com/miles-hendrix/peachy

Petey is very similar but with 100k plate. This is an accurate representation of Petey.

https://soundcloud.com/miles-hendrix/guerrero

It needs 2-3khz. I want to hear the harmonic squeals rip it!!
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
Smokebreak
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Re: 4 stager

Post by Smokebreak »

Enola II sounds great and so does the song. It took me to Lucinda Williams meets Swervedriver. Guerrero has me a bit confounded. I love it but need a translation.
Thanks for the clips, it's great to see what everyone does with gain.
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Reeltarded
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Re: 4 stager

Post by Reeltarded »

My amps aren't far from Marshalls. The tone settings are moderate. Peachy probably 7s all the way, on the other one straight up the middle.

Guerrero is about playing on the road. (they say)

heh
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iknowjohnny
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Re: 4 stager

Post by iknowjohnny »

Gaz wrote:You're making a generalization based on tweaking your specific amp, but that doesn't mean it's true for all high gain amps. Engls don't have any peakers and they are heavy as hell. Orange's Rockerverb is another example. Just sayin.
True, but note that the amp in question has thru the years gone thru so many incarnations it's been many amps, literally. But the thing i find is a LOT of production amps and even boutique amps have some or a lot of woolliness in the lows and it took me years to get rid of that in mine without upsetting other tonal details. And peakers were the one thing that no matter what i did had to be there or the low end would never be what it is today, which IMO is better than most amps i have ever played that have as much preamp gain and good balance of all tonal details that we all strive for. Granted, you can't just throw peakers in at random. They have to be in the right place, the right number of them, and the right values. Mine are 500pf like marshall, but they sit atop 220k resistors instead of 470k. That make a huge difference. Placement took me forever to figure out and that made a huge difference.

I WILL grant you ENGL does the low end tightness amazingly well for an amp with no peakers, which i didn't know till your post. I will have to look at thier schematics if i can find them and see how they accomplish that. But i also felt the ones i played were very metalish sounding while mine is purely vintage marshall sounding. And i haven't played many amps with that type of sound that don't have a somewhat to very wooly low end. You may be right to a degree, but i feel my amp is one of the best if not the best cascaded OD style amps i have heard to my ears at least, and w/o peakers there thing isn't. No matter what i've tried in the past, peakers in the RIGHT values, the RIGHT amount, and the RIGHT location have been 100% necassary to get this amp to where it is. Yes, i AM citing this in respect to a particular amp. But it is one that as i said has been many amps including several different trannys both power and OT, many PSU schemes, tried many tubes, you name it. The peakers have always been necassary or i absolutely could not get the quality of tone it has today.
Smokebreak
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Re: 4 stager

Post by Smokebreak »

Nothing wrong with peakers :D I think the point is there are a bunch of ways to skin a cat, and even more ways to season it to taste.
Do you have a schematic ? That would make it easier to discuss.
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roberto
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Re: 4 stager

Post by roberto »

I usually have one peaker only between 1st and 2nd stage of my amps (before the gain).
Of course I shape by cathode bypass plus snubbers, load of the stage, grid stoppers, etc...
bruce egnater
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Re: 4 stager

Post by bruce egnater »

There are a few Bogner and Friedman spices mixed in too. The correct combination of parts is the one that sounds and feels best to you.
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roberto
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Re: 4 stager

Post by roberto »

Yes Bruce,
He wrote that the basis of that schematic comes from my old Marsholdano amp, which started as a blend of a Marshall with Bogner and Soldano.

The Friedman is the part I'd have left apart.
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