Quest for clean tone (Part 1)

[nickm57]

yep Mike Campbell's rig

[M Fowler]

Dave(colossal)

I was also wondering about using the Princeton Reverb instead of the Deluxe Reverb since I wasn't sure you actually need two channel amps in stereo rig?

If miking, the stock Deluxe Reverb/Princeton Reverb would be excellant. If not miking I think the only way to get the volume with any amount of clean headroom left is with the high efficient speaker or TL806 boxes and the larger iron pushing it.

Since we talk frequently you know me well enough that my position on headroom is to start with high watt tube bass amps period (or Fender Twin Amp) for clean guitar signal. Add tube reverb or effects loop with digital reverb, and run your foot pedals in the front end for distortion/gain set at slightly above unity gain not adding noise to the signal chain.

It would be interesting to have your Colassal Four 6V6 amp mated with a Deluxe Reverb stereo rig then go from there.

Some one mentioned ultra-linear OT in the Deluxe-Reverb circuit is that a possibility?

Mark

[Baxtercat]

Bump up the clarity on the DelRevs:
I've got decades of gigs w/ two clear Fenders running in pseudo-stereo [mostly for my own fun: makes me play better]. I've had much luck swapping 6L6s into the DelRevs and using better speakers [EVs, whatever]. I've even swapped bigger OTs into some SF DelRevs years ago. The amp was as loud or louder than a Vibrolux Reverb.

Two Bassman heads are really good too.

I'm always rotating thru my stash each gig for a cleanish stereo pair.
The trunk is already loaded up for tonight's wingding.

[Colossal]

Bump up the clarity on the DelRevs:
I've got decades of gigs w/ two clear Fenders running in pseudo-stereo [mostly for my own fun: makes me play better].

Bob,

Thanks a LOT for this report. This is the kind of thing that is very helpful and helps dispel uncertainty about the final choice. That is quite a stable of amps you have there! Looks great. Like you, I'm into the stereo thing mostly for my own edification. I largely suspect I'll be ok in the 2 x 6V6 or 2x6L6 range.

I've had much luck swapping 6L6s into the DelRevs and using better speakers [EVs, whatever]. I've even swapped bigger OTs into some SF DelRevs years ago. The amp was as loud or louder than a Vibrolux Reverb.

I have overspec'd iron which will be more than capable of running either tubes with a rebias so that will be cool. My thinking is just to focus on the AB763 schematic, dropping the normal channel and tremolo, and making a few other light personalizations. Speakers will be EVM12L or JBL (or one of each for broader EQ).

Which do you prefer in terms of overall clarity, punch, and just plain grin-factor; 6V6s (with oversized transformers) or 6L6s??

Thanks for your help.

Regards,
Dave

**EDIT** Dude, upon closer inspection you have a Jubilee, a Princeton, a BF Deluxe, a SF Deluxe, and what looks like a SF Twin!! WOW!

[Sonny ReVerb]

You could always go the Setzer route:

Two early 60's blonde bassman heads through 2x12 bassman cabs loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's. A Dunlop Tremolo pedal, and a Roland Space Echo tape delay. Amps are stock, and I believe are fitted with Tung-Sol 5881's.

[Bob-I]

I was also wondering about using the Princeton Reverb instead of the Deluxe Reverb since I wasn't sure you actually need two channel amps in stereo rig?

One amp that I built was a single channel Deluxe reverb with no trem. The Princeton has a cathodyne PI and tends to break up earlier than the Deluxe LTP PI.

For clean I prefer the 40 watt AB763 circuit like a Super Reverb. I typically run my Super Reverb clone without V1 so it's a single channel amp.

In any case I don't see the need to use 2 amps. Stereo effects (If that's your purpose) tend to lose effectivness in a live situation so I don't use them, and if you're not loud enough miking is far more effective than playing louder. I also use in ear monitors so hearing myself is never an issue anymore.

Of course this is all JMO.

[Colossal]

One amp that I built was a single channel Deluxe reverb with no trem. The Princeton has a cathodyne PI and tends to break up earlier than the Deluxe LTP PI.

For clean I prefer the 40 watt AB763 circuit like a Super Reverb. I typically run my Super Reverb clone without V1 so it's a single channel amp.

In any case I don't see the need to use 2 amps. Stereo effects (If that's your purpose) tend to lose effectivness in a live situation so I don't use them, and if you're not loud enough miking is far more effective than playing louder. I also use in ear monitors so hearing myself is never an issue anymore.

Of course this is all JMO.

Hi Bob,

Thanks for weighing in. Good to hear you built a Deluxe with single channel and no trem as that's pretty much what I'm thinking at this point. The PT and OT I've picked with run either 6V6s or 6L6s so I'll have the option to try both. I'm going to add a few options to the amps as well, just to be able to vary the tonality slightly between the two so they aren't just two of the "same" thing.

As for running two amps, yes, the effect is diminished in a live situation and I would be micing anyway but I am looking for the stereo envelope mostly for my own gratification Placing the amps slightly apart from one another and running a stereo chorus is just really inspiring for me.

Dave

[Baxtercat]

Yes, it's because two amps are so fun.
I've got another grin going here @ work from last night's gig. It just sounded so big and sweet.

I always wanted to make two BF or SF Bassman heads into combos [like some guys have been doing]. That'd be glorious. [Of course, Mama-san says 'Enough w/ the amps, already!' and I prob'ly agree. About time to sell off something.]

I like 6L6s in the DelRevs, and I really miss the '73 I'd added a bigger OT to. But it's EZ, as Bob-1 is saying, to just make one-channel 40-watters.

That's what this chili-motif amp is I made [my best-sounding amp]...pretty much low-gain Fender topography copied inside [no trem or 'verb, three stages, generic Hammond trannies, 2-6L6s, and an EV-12S].

[Colossal]

I like 6L6s in the DelRevs, and I really miss the '73 I'd added a bigger OT to. But it's EZ, as Bob-1 is saying, to just make one-channel 40-watters.

That's what this chili-motif amp is I made [my best-sounding amp]...pretty much low-gain Fender topography copied inside [no trem or 'verb, three stages, generic Hammond trannies, 2-6L6s, and an EV-12S].

I like the chili amp, that's pretty hot (pun intended). Thanks for confirming the details on the power stage. I think going with 2x6L6 will be a home run the first time and as Mark Fowler, Don Moose, and Andy have pointed out, you can't have too much headroom for cleans. 40W per amp is a nice compromise for my needs. I will be using oversized iron for these builds so would expect to get some additional low end and volume. I am planning to use 1x12 EVM-12Ls for each amp or perhaps using a JBL in one cab and an EV in the other for a little EQ variety.

<u>So to summarize, here's what I'm thinking:</u>

1. Modded AB763 schematic with Normal channel and tremolo removed.
2. Modded reverb circuit to be less "surfy". Added dwell control and changed reverb volume to 100K-A for more control. Some other tweaks in the works.
3. Added Master Volume (thanks for this one Firestorm).
4. Slightly stiffened power supply with some modern improvements (better filtering, bleed resistors, etc).
5. Fat transformers.
6. Dual adjustable bias. Ground reference resistors on grids lowered to 150-180K each.
7. 2x6L6 power section.
8. Maybe a couple of other tweaks.

Thank you all for your comments, ideas, and experiences on this. It's helped me a lot. Bob, you've got a great collection of amps there.