First clip from my D'22 build

odourboy · Post by **odourboy** » Tue May 13, 2008 8:04 pm

Bob-I wrote: Your preamp voltages are low. Shoot for around 200.

FWIW, I disagree. I think they're fine.

Bob-I · Post by **Bob-I** » Tue May 13, 2008 8:08 pm

odourboy wrote:
Bob-I wrote: Your preamp voltages are low. Shoot for around 200.
FWIW, I disagree. I think they're fine.

Yes, not bad. I find that a bit mushy feeling but acceptable. Something else is wrong here too.

markmalin · Post by **markmalin** » Tue May 13, 2008 9:04 pm

Bob-I wrote:
odourboy wrote:
Bob-I wrote: Your preamp voltages are low. Shoot for around 200.
FWIW, I disagree. I think they're fine.
Yes, not bad. I find that a bit mushy feeling but acceptable. Something else is wrong here too.

I think I'll swap the 120K FET resistor out with the original 150K I had in there. From my tests last night, this will bring up the pre-amp voltages slightly (187 range on V1, 198 on V2). dogears and others suggest 180's+ range, but under 200. I'm suprised you like it closer to 200... Curious...

Tonight I'll check voltages and record a clean setting. I won't be able to record anthing loud tonight, unfortunatley (wife's home). I can do that Wed. night, though (she works

. When I do that I can mess with the OD trimmer some, and I have lots of tubes I can swap out in the OD slot. I can make a recording then, and should be able to snap some pictures.

I agree that something's wrong, and in the OD section. It's like in OD, it doesn't sing, or sistain. It sort of squashes out.

Anyhow, thanks for the input, guys. I'll post some more tomorrow.

odourboy · Post by **odourboy** » Tue May 13, 2008 10:22 pm

Bob-I wrote:
odourboy wrote:
Bob-I wrote: Your preamp voltages are low. Shoot for around 200.
FWIW, I disagree. I think they're fine.
Yes, not bad. I find that a bit mushy feeling but acceptable. Something else is wrong here too.

Bob - just for the record. I like mushy!

Also, Mark's stated goal is the Gregor Hilden tone. That's kind of mushy to my ears. I agree that there's something else going on. It doesn't sound right, but I don't think it's a V1 or V2 plate voltage thing. Anyway, Mark's going to bump the voltages so we'll see.

Mark, one other observation which you've already acknowledged - I don't think you're hitting V1B (and maybe V2A) hard enough. I run my volume around 1:30. In my nonHRMs my pre-od trimmer is set around low 40K range (+/- depending on which amp). Getting a couple of those stages operating into the compression zone might improve your sustain.

markmalin · Post by **markmalin** » Wed May 14, 2008 1:25 am

odourboy wrote:
Bob-I wrote:
odourboy wrote: FWIW, I disagree. I think they're fine.
Yes, not bad. I find that a bit mushy feeling but acceptable. Something else is wrong here too.
Bob - just for the record. I like mushy!

Also, Mark's stated goal is the Gregor Hilden tone. That's kind of mushy to my ears. I agree that there's something else going on. It doesn't sound right, but I don't think it's a V1 or V2 plate voltage thing. Anyway, Mark's going to bump the voltages so we'll see.

Yah, I need to remember that. The Gregor Hilden tone is what I'm trying to get at. It's clean and punchy and dynamic, and when he digs in he gets lots of sustain and OD. I'm really not looking for a Marshall tone. Heck, when I listen to Brownnote's MP3's of the D'Lite 22, that kind of articulate, throaty tone is so utterly cool. The cleans seem very dynamic and have tons of sustain, and the OD settings have lots of sustain and bite, but it's not just "fuzzy", there's some real tone behind it.

You guys have to explain what "mushy" means...

So I raised up the voltages by switching back the 120K FET resistor to 150K. Here's what the amp is sitting at now:

V1 P1: 187
V1 c1: 1.64
V1 P2: 192.4
V1 c2: 1.54

V2 P1: 196.4
V2 c1: 1.63
V2 P2: 199.6
V2 c2: 1.55

V3 P1: 283.7 (adjusting this trimmer still makes no dif. to my ears...)
V3 P2: 294.7
V3 c1/c2: 53

V4 p1: 423
V4 P2: 423
V4 Bias i: 22.5 mA and 21.1 mA
V4 Bias V: -39.8

Mark, one other observation which you've already acknowledged - I don't think you're hitting V1B (and maybe V2A) hard enough. I run my volume around 1:30. In my nonHRMs my pre-od trimmer is set around low 40K range (+/- depending on which amp). Getting a couple of those stages operating into the compression zone might improve your sustain.

Note that the OD trimmer WAS set to only 9:30. I turned that up to 12:00 and it had more sustain in the OD setting, but I couldn't play loud enough to get a good feel. I'll have some time tomorrow night, and I'm borrowing a camer to take some pictures.

Meanwhile, when I get to work tomorrow I'll upload a few clean recordings I made tonight. Hopefully you guys can tell me if the clean is sounding the way it should.

Mark.

markmalin · Post by **markmalin** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:15 pm

Here are some clean clips. Do these sound OK? They seem kind of lifeless to me.

Incidentally, I added a switch to switch out the NFBL at V1, so I did 4 clips.

- NFBL in, Brite Off
- NFBL in, Brite ON
- NFBL out, Brite Off
- NFBL out, Brite ON

Mark.

markmalin · Post by **markmalin** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:16 pm

This one's NFBL IN - BRITE ON

markmalin · Post by **markmalin** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:17 pm

This is NFBL OUT - BRITE OFF

markmalin · Post by **markmalin** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:18 pm

This is NFBL OUT - BRITE ON

markmalin · Post by **markmalin** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:20 pm

so bear in mind these were recorded at slightly above livingroom volumes.

I sure appreciate all the input. I want to get this amp right. This evening I can post some pictures of the chassis -- hopefully something will look obvious.

Mark.

brownnote · Post by **brownnote** » Wed May 14, 2008 4:34 pm

Can we see some gutshots?
Sometimes it's easier with a visual.

markmalin · Post by **markmalin** » Wed May 14, 2008 5:27 pm

brownnote wrote:Can we see some gutshots?
Sometimes it's easier with a visual.

I'm going to snap some pic's tonight and post them. Thanks for the response

Mark.

Bob-I · Post by **Bob-I** » Wed May 14, 2008 6:10 pm

I'm not sure qht you recorded with, but I hear a little clipping and compression that I'll assume is the recording.

I thing you're in the ballpark with the clean sound.

FWIW I don't hear the PI trimmer until it get fairly loud, so I've stopped putting these in.

Let's see those pics, I'll get we'll get her sorted out quickly.

Bob-I · Post by **Bob-I** » Wed May 14, 2008 6:15 pm

markmalin wrote:You guys have to explain what "mushy" means...

The best way I can explain it is through examples.

Brain May's tone is mushy, Robben Ford is tighter. Mush means that the notes don't attack as strong, kinda fade in. It's a subtle difference and with 20 people you'll get 20 opinions.

Get the OD fixed and you can tweak the voltages later.

markmalin · Post by **markmalin** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:29 pm

Bob-I wrote:I'm not sure qht you recorded with, but I hear a little clipping and compression that I'll assume is the recording.

I thing you're in the ballpark with the clean sound.

It's just a Sony Minidisc recorder and a knock-off Sony stereo condensor mic placed about 4 feet in front of the amp.

I think the compression may be the amp more than the recorder, but I don't know for sure. In any case, I'll get some pictures tonight.

Thanks again for the input, and your vote of confidence re getting this ironed out!

Mark.

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