Fischerman wrote:Just curious but...do any of you guys ever build an amp with, say, an OT model that you've used with success many times before (say a Twin Reverb OT) but for whatever reason that particular OT just sounds like shit? I don't think I build enough to know.
LC question: EDIT...this probably needed a new thread.
Yeah, last year I built an amp that happened to have a bum Heyboer Bassman OT. It was doing some pretty funky stuff - I think there was an internal short of some kind.
Swapped it for a Heyboer JTM 45 I had lying around and all was well
Normster wrote:
Andy because he mass produced the circuit and delivered very consistent results.
Hi Normster,
in all official statements (I know of) Andy points to the fact, that his circuits are n o D u m b l e c l o n e s but his own designs that are only inspired in some way by some music played and recorded using Dumble amps.
And indeed: The fuchs amps I could A/B with some original Dumble ODS sounded rather different from the original Dumbles (at least for my own ears).
So I think it is no wonder at all, that some guys you know prefer the Dumbles and others guys Fuchs amps.
Indeed I know of many guitarists who tried an original Dumble ODS and did not fall in love. Many found the original ODS uncomfortable direct, with to much highs in the OD sound. Perhaps you remeber the Dumble test report in the "Guitar Players Magazine" at some point in the early nineties (was a shootout kind of report including many amps). "Guitar Player" found this Skyliner ODS sounding harsh and lacking the "sweetness" they associated with the "Dumble" brand.
Funkalicousgroove wrote:
...As far as land mines, I have de-gooped about 6 at this point, and been in around a dozen- There are no Land mines....
...I really think Alexander is a genius, He does use certain parts in certain areas of the circuit for a reason, and the more of them i see, the more I am convinced that there is a combination of "What was readily available at the time" and the best choices of said parts for each amp. Why else would 1 amp contain 3 different Brand and Type of the same value component?
Hi Brandon,
on the base of my own experiences with Dumble amps and on the base of what an experienced tech told me who did service to a lot of originals:
I fully agree to this statement (at least if one does not call a rather high capacitance shielded cable for the signal transfer in some originals a "land mine").
ayan wrote:
Hi Normster, in all official statements (I know of) Andy points to the fact, that his circuits are n o D u m b l e c l o n e s but his own designs that are only inspired in some way by some music played and recorded using Dumble amps. And indeed: The fuchs amps I could A/B with some original Dumble ODS sounded rather different from the original Dumbles (at least for my own ears). So I think it is no wonder at all, that some guys you know prefer the Dumbles and others guys Fuchs amps. Indeed I know of many guitarists who tried an original Dumble ODS and did not fall in love. Many found the original ODS uncomfortable direct, with to much highs in the OD sound. Perhaps you remeber the Dumble test report in the "Guitar Players Magazine" at some point in the early nineties (was a shootout kind of report including many amps). "Guitar Player" found this Skyliner ODS sounding harsh and lacking the "sweetness" they associated with the "Dumble" brand. Cheers Max
Thanks for your input into the thread. Our circuits somewhat follow the Dumble topology (preamp and power amp), but with our own loop, reverb and power supply tweaks. It was my goal to make this tonality available to the masses. In 1999 it was basically Two-Rock and Fuchs. Within the last ten years, many people have jumped into this arena, with their own interpretation of these designs. It's up to the customer to decide who's amp are quality, and meet their needs as a player.
I must state: These circuits have their own unique feel, touch and tone. Not everyone feels comfortable playing them. The common complaint is "the sound is so revealing...it shows every mistake". My feeling is: If it shows how bad you play, play better or buy a more forgiving amp..
We have had a number of customers who've sold their Dumbles (cashed-out as it were...for big money), and bought Fuchs amps (and I'm sure others). One guy owned two Dumbles ("one to play, on to send in for repairs"), and eventually sold both after he met actually Dumble and was berated for owning one of my amps !
I a/b'ed lots of my prototypes to original Dumbles I've serviced from many eras. I still sometimes get the chance when I service a Dumble. I'm happy with how we compare with most any I've compared with from most eras. We've also tuned our amps with player cooperation (like ScottL) and others. Remember, each Dumble had it's own unique voice. We've settled on a voicing that seems to please many players worldwide, which makes us happy. We'll still do customer tuning if requested as well.
You can barely can get a Dumble at a fair price used. You can likely never buy one new again. The builder no longer supports his customers anyway, so it's somewhat a moot point no ?
I must state: These circuits have their own unique feel, touch and tone. Not everyone feels comfortable playing them. The common complaint is "the sound is so revealing...it shows every mistake". My feeling is: If it shows how bad you play, play better or buy a more forgiving amp..
Hopefully without getting into how bad I play......do any of you find the ODS much harder to play alone than with a band?
I don't gig anymore but I have my 50W HRM set up as my 'TV amp' for noodling when I watch TV...but sometimes I play it without anything else on (EDIT: OK that didn't come out right...I'm fully clothed...just no music/TV on). It sure seems that it's easier to play (and just more fun) when there is background music or even just noise/dialogue from the TV. And when I play along with a CD (or commercial...five-dollar-foot-looooong... ) it just sits so nicely in the mix and is way more funner.
I've used a 'TV amp' for years and several amps have made it in the rotation but I don't recall this being the case (and certainly not to this degree) with the others.
I think it's very true that Dumble style amps aren't for every player. I just had my Double Drive come back from a month-long test drive with a prospective client. He didn't like it, but not because it sounded bad. He said "It gave me too many tone choices. I just want one clean and one overdrive."
Well I'm 52 and the last time I heard a Dumble was in early 1980s sounded like crap. My Fender Tremolux and Bassman heads sounded like crap too and I was tired of finding the tubes had fallen of in the trailer. I switched to a Peavey Bandit 65 for 18 years playing up and down every shit hole bar in North Dakota and Minnesota.
Now I only have tube amps, go figure! It rides next to me in the truck. My rig Dr Z Stangray head with 212 alnico blues and a whole lot of stomp boxes so I can dance while I play. I just ask the audience how it sounds and when I get the thumbs up I smile.
Bottom line play what you brought and build what you want. I would love to get to an Amp Show to try out the some builders amps for comparison. Fargo the home of John Lang, Shannon Kurfman, and Mike Keller among others. We don't just play 2 step here.
FUCHSAUDIO wrote:
You can barely can get a Dumble at a fair price used.
Hi Andy,
Isn't any price, that is a result of the free acting of people (sellers, buyers) on any given market "fair" by definition?
Or do you think (like Mr. Karl Marx) that any product has a fixed "intrinsic value" that differs from the market price (Only then a price could be fair or unfair!)?
But how will you ever know this "fair" "intrinsic value" if not from the given market results?
To add up the prices of all the parts and labor only leads into an infinite regress: Those prices too are all "market prices"? And what is thei "intrinsic value"? Regressus ad infinitum!
"the sound is so revealing...it shows every mistake" is what I was chasing in one of these amps.
I don't think the real dumbles are available to the people who would now create new music. It's gone by the way of Les Pauls or 50's fenders......
So what is happening here gives people to opportunity to develop on the original idea.
Pick up Jimi's strat are you going to change the coarse of modern music? or could you create your own music on a guitar that suits you. Same with amps.
These amps are unique in there sound. I must admit they can't create the sound of a Vox etc. but because of the mystique they command high price and a great misunderstanding of there tone.
I spoke to a young guitarist the other day who was under the impression that John Mayer created his "unique?" sound with unique Two rocks amps.....
Wow!! Very cool thread...
The thing I am seeing is the players who are familiar with or who have played Dumble style amps...Come in and try ours seem to be more receptive and understand how different these amps are.. Mainly the clean channel... the initial response is usually the same.. If I hand them the amp tell them, play it for a while get over the learning curve of the topology, have it grow on them a bit they always come back with a this amp KILLS!!! This is especially true with slide players..
The thing with many of the higher profile players is they usually don't want to take the time to fall in love with it... If it doesn't feel like a Blackface, Tweed, Marshall... Whatever... grab them by the to to.. and throw them against the wall right away forget about it....
Most guy's have there pedals and are not even interested in checking out overdrive amps D-style
talbany wrote:Most guy's have there pedals and are not even interested in checking out overdrive amps D-style
This is something I have never understood. A lot of players will throw a fit over needing a tube amp, but then go and get their distortion from a stompbox...
Once again I truly believe it is a comfort factor..or many just have not played through a good tube driven overdrive amp and are skeptical..If I didn't tell them it was a D-style amp forget it... If they are willing to take the time be open and receptive they usually come around to see the light... Oh I get it now.. It's got the touch responsiveness-organic.. sounds outstanding with my Les Paul or it works great with the volume and tone controls on the guitar or I love it with an EV/ Eminence whatever speaker..You can tell them but they have to find it themselves.. Once they get over that hump you will find that the pedal board quickly shrinks...
Yes I think the OD channel on the D style amps is the best overdrive I have ever played through.
I've owned tons of OD and fuzz pedals over the years and I haven't really used any in front of my amp much at all.
Occasionally I'll break out my Sunface w/sundial for the wooly fuzz effect but for the most part I just use the OD on the amp. Simply a great OD.
...do any of you find the ODS much harder to play alone than with a band?
