found a chassis in my storage place :D

[norburybrook]

Marcus, on.your settings: thats approximatly my loudest setting I play and it' s f@@#$g loud, but still clean. If your volume control pots have 30% taper I bet that that setting will distort the PI.

Erwin,

yes i have CTS j taper which are 30%

Sounding great, now, loving the NUX reverb and delay pedal straight into the amp powered from the footpedal nice and tidy. I'm just making a nice single cable send and return.

M

[talbany]

OK, found a 27k and a 1.8k and its a lot better now. Voltages are up.

Hey Marcus.
Your Welcome
Tony

[norburybrook]

BTW. If your loop branch voltage is a little off you can compensate this by changing the value of the 27K resistor (leave the 1.8k). You really want to shoot for 30V exactly on the CF. As this is a big part of the D-Lator sound.

Tony

Tony,

thanks

I Know you're a stickler for detail, should I be shooting for 30 exactly, or is 28v Close enough?

I shall report back tomorrow with the finished combo.

M

[martin manning]

Been trying to get you to go to those values on the CF for 3 weeks! I think it would be better to keep the Rk and Rb at 27k and 1k8, and adjust the first dropping resistor in the loop branch to get 350-360V at the first node.

[talbany]

BTW. If your loop branch voltage is a little off you can compensate this by changing the value of the 27K resistor (leave the 1.8k). You really want to shoot for 30V exactly on the CF. As this is a big part of the D-Lator sound.

Tony

Tony,

thanks

I Know you're a stickler for detail, should I be shooting for 30 exactly, or is 28v Close enough?

I shall report back tomorrow with the finished combo.

M

Marcus
Your going to get some swing tube 2 tube so this is why I shoot for 30 that way if you find a tube that draws more current a few volts between friends is no biggie. Just like we try to stick with the same voltages in the amp as Dumble has used why not apply the same logic to the lator. I am not knocking Erwins set up as he obviously knows what he is doing however if you stray outside the box you better know what to expect if things go sideways on you.
Don't ask me how I know this,
Tony

[norburybrook]

Been trying to get you to go to those values on the CF for 3 weeks! I think it would be better to keep the Rk and Rb at 27k and 1k8, and adjust the first dropping resistor in the loop branch to get 350-360V at the first node.

Martin,

Yes, I had that thought, but I'm going to stick with it as it is now as that resistor is in a PCB and tight between caps.
I did have the 27k in there after you mentioned it but then changed it to 10k after speaking to Erwin again Just goes to show what works for one not doesn't for another.

I shall report back this evening when I've got the speaker in.


M

[martin manning]

The first dropping resistor in the loop branch is the one near the back edge of the PS board, next to the B3a pad. Are your B3a and B3b voltages somewhere near 350 and 250 with the 27k Rk and 1k8 Rb? If so, it's probably fine. Based on these measurements, I think it's good.

OK, found a 27k and a 1.8k and its a lot better now. Voltages are up.

pin 1: 255v
pin 2: 13v
pin 3 : 28v

pin 6: 235v
pin 7: 0v
pin 8; 1.6v

[norburybrook]

OK. Took the amp over to Alans today. We tried a Celestion 250w Copperback Neo that celestion had sent with the BN12 300S first and none of us liked it so I was slightly worried about the BN12.

I shouldn't have worried, it sounds fantastic even from brand new so I think it will break in nicely. It's a loud, proud EVM 12 type speaker at 300w but only weighs 4lb.

So with this in the amp we spent the afternoon putting it through it's paces. Passed with flying colours, really great sounding amp. I can heartily recommend this speaker with ODS type amps, a new classic IMHO

Combo weighs in at 40lb which is great.

many thanks again to everyone who's helped out with this, especially Erwin for the boards and general idea of the high plate v1 in the hybrid. Martin, Tony, Jeff and everyone who's chipped in with advice and suggestions. Another great amp is brought to life.

ODS combo 1.jpeg

ODS combo 2.jpeg

ODS combo 3.jpeg

ODS combo 4.jpeg

M

[martin manning]

Looks great, and it was fun as always seeing it come to life! Good to know about the lightweight speaker option.

[norburybrook]

Looks great, and it was fun as always seeing it come to life! Good to know about the lightweight speaker option.

Thanks Martin yes, I think the speaker is the revelation here on this, as I said above, i think this will become a favourite with builders here.

The Loop is really adding some lovely harmonic complexity to the amp and we had it AB against Alan's current rig as a base line and the new combo sounded great. Alan Doesn't like the Dumbleator normally but had no issues at all with this amp, he uses the amps permanently in OD mode by the way and rolls his volume for clean/dirty.

Now it's been played for a day, I see no reason to have a bypass switch.

It's the most versatile ODS amp I've built for sure. Lovely cleans, great crunch and killer OD.

I'll post some sound clips when I get chance.

M

[talbany]

And another Reptile is born

Although it's not a Music man I am sure it sounds (as you Brit's say) Lovely
I have not yet heard a Neo speaker I liked with these amps yet am curious to hear how the Celestion sounds as the idea of a light weight combo with a built in loop is intriguing!!
So be a man this time (no jazzy background music) throw up a camera grab a guitar and give us a video with your best licks!

Looking forward to that

Tony

[norburybrook]

And another Reptile is born

Although it's not a Music man I am sure it sounds (as you Brit's say) Lovely
I have not yet heard a Neo speaker I liked with these amps yet am curious to hear how the Celestion sounds as the idea of a light weight combo with a built in loop is intriguing!!
So be a man this time (no jazzy background music) throw up a camera grab a guitar and give us a video with your best licks!

Looking forward to that

Tony

Tony,

well the neo Copperback 250w I tried first wasn't good at all, but BN12 300 was fantastic in comparison. It's burning in as we speak..sat in the studio with music blaring through it all night

I'm away for the weekend for a rest!!

I shall post some sounds next week.....there might be some jazz...... just to show the clean


M

[talbany]

And another Reptile is born

Although it's not a Music man I am sure it sounds (as you Brit's say) Lovely
I have not yet heard a Neo speaker I liked with these amps yet am curious to hear how the Celestion sounds as the idea of a light weight combo with a built in loop is intriguing!!
So be a man this time (no jazzy background music) throw up a camera grab a guitar and give us a video with your best licks!

Looking forward to that

Tony

Tony,

well the neo Copperback 250w I tried first wasn't good at all, but BN12 300 was fantastic in comparison. It's burning in as we speak..sat in the studio with music blaring through it all night

I'm away for the weekend for a rest!!

I shall post some sounds next week.....there might be some jazz...... just to show the clean


M

Sounds good!!
So here is the problem I have with the Neos (and I have tried just about all of them). Most of the ones I have tried sound fine in clean mode however in overdrive they sound either too boxy, feel stiff or have a strange buzzy quality in the 1K that is harmonically inconsistent up the fretboard and yes they were all broken in. They don't make the transition between clean and OD very transparent either. I've had this discussion with Lindy Fralin on several occasions and he agrees.He believes this has something to do with the magnetic field generated by the smaller (more powerful) magnets. I do agree that with some time they do improve. One thing I do know is I am very picky about my speakers hear everything and the Overdrive Special is also a very picky amp when it comes to speaker types. It's painful to think of the amount of time energy and money I;ve spent on all of the speaker changes and different cabinet types I ve tried over the years and I always come back to the same select few. It's like pickups and pedals and tubes. What a rabbit hole all that stuff is.

This is why I asked for just you a camera and the amp no background music so I can hear what it really sounds like DRY!
Thanks!
A bitter old guitar player!

[erwin_ve]

Looks great Marcus. A multi headed snake with extra 9v power from its tail.
I had a test drive with the bn12-300s speaker, it is a pleasant surprise sound and weight wise.
A shame I havent got it in my 2nd gen hybrid yet.
Also enjoyed reading this topic with all its twists and surprises.
The amp turned out great and you managed to give it some personal touch.
Waiting for the next amp!

[norburybrook]

And another Reptile is born

Although it's not a Music man I am sure it sounds (as you Brit's say) Lovely
I have not yet heard a Neo speaker I liked with these amps yet am curious to hear how the Celestion sounds as the idea of a light weight combo with a built in loop is intriguing!!
So be a man this time (no jazzy background music) throw up a camera grab a guitar and give us a video with your best licks!

Looking forward to that

Tony

Tony,

well the neo Copperback 250w I tried first wasn't good at all, but BN12 300 was fantastic in comparison. It's burning in as we speak..sat in the studio with music blaring through it all night

I'm away for the weekend for a rest!!

I shall post some sounds next week.....there might be some jazz...... just to show the clean


M

Sounds good!!
So here is the problem I have with the Neos (and I have tried just about all of them). Most of the ones I have tried sound fine in clean mode however in overdrive they sound either too boxy, feel stiff or have a strange buzzy quality in the 1K that is harmonically inconsistent up the fretboard and yes they were all broken in. They don't make the transition between clean and OD very transparent either. I've had this discussion with Lindy Fralin on several occasions and he agrees.He believes this has something to do with the magnetic field generated by the smaller (more powerful) magnets. I do agree that with some time they do improve. One thing I do know is I am very picky about my speakers hear everything and the Overdrive Special is also a very picky amp when it comes to speaker types. It's painful to think of the amount of time energy and money I;ve spent on all of the speaker changes and different cabinet types I ve tried over the years and I always come back to the same select few. It's like pickups and pedals and tubes. What a rabbit hole all that stuff is.

This is why I asked for just you a camera and the amp no background music so I can hear what it really sounds like DRY!
Thanks!
A bitter old guitar player!

Tony,

What you describe is exactly how I would have described the Copperback. The 300s in my combo was played all afternoon in overdrive so we made our choice on the overdrive sound with it cleaning up on the volume. Obviously everyone has their own ideal sound and it 'might' not be your cup of tea but I like it.

I get where you're coming from with a sound test I do all my Kemper sound tests this way as you're buying a sound profile you need to hear it as clearly as possible, not buried and processed in a track.

@Erwin,

yes it's been another little journey, this is the first amp I feel has some of my own personal input into and not just a #102/183/040 etc so that feels good.

I have one chassis left in storage. It's NOT exactly the same size as this one so I'll have to make new faceplates whatever I do. It's drilled for 3 novals and 2 Octals so a 50w SS rectifier of some kind. Just thinking about what the last amp I'll build should be.???? I'm thinking along the lines of an Express like the last one I built for Alan D at crossroads, I really liked that amp. I'm open to suggestions fellas

M


M