What do we rate as important in a build?

[Mark]

My thoughts towards a build are to work out what are the areas I should spend money on.

If the amp was a combo, I'd rate the speaker and cab as the number one item, followed by the transformer set. I would then consider the choice of valves, followed by layout, then pots, then caps and finally resistors.

In my limited experience this is the order of items most effecting the timbre of the amp.

Any thoughts on this?

I thought this to be an appropriate location for this thread as a Dumble build usually has focus on all parts in an amp and this is a good topic for people new to building their own amp.

[talbany]

Mark
So when you say "What do we rate as important in a build?" are you referring to building an amp to get as close as you can to an original or just amp building in general?

IMO 2 very different ways to approach it!
Tony

[dbeasley]

Speaker and cab are super important! But how do you test and determine which of those works best until you actually build the amp?


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[Mark]

Thanks for your replies, I wasn't referring to copying a build, but building any amp and making good choices with those amp dollars.

Speakers are a tough one and a head only build is sometimes advisable as there are fewer variables.

The discussion I'm wanting to have is a holist view of the amp rather than focusing capacitor brand X over Y. Granted caps do make a difference but transformers are my chief concern when building an amp (chassis) up.

[norburybrook]

Mark,

from my limited experience in building, that's about 10 amps now, I've not found any transformers to be an issue when it comes to building a great sounding amp.

I've used; Hammond, Dagnall, modulus' own brand, custom winds from InmadOut and vintage 80's iron from usa peavey amps and they've all produced great sounding amps.


personally, speaker/cab have the biggest tonal variation on an amp, but you have to build the amp first of course. I tend to build heads for this reason.


Amps A,D,C,D, through speaker/cab Z will sound less different than amp A through speaker/cab W,X,Y,Z,


this view was reinforced recently when I watched this :
checkout 1:49:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqK62gtmAo4



Marcus

[talbany]

My thoughts towards a build are to work out what are the areas I should spend money on.
In my limited experience this is the order of items most effecting the timbre of the amp.

Any thoughts on this?

Mark
In general, you have to consider several things in a build. The 2 main ones being "timbre" and reliability!. Some of the parts you listed may not affect the sound of the amp equally, however, we also want to spend the money on good parts for the reliability aspect as well. Since a good set of transformers is useless if your input jack fails half way through the 1st set
Parts like transformers tubes and Filter/Signal caps for both reliability and sound. Things like Pot's, jacks, resistors and switches that don't play as big a role on the sound we pay up for reliability!. Layout doesn't really cost that much and cabinet grade goes pretty much without saying

Tony

[10thTx]

I agree with speakers and cab being critically important.

That aside, I've found the output transformer and the caps to be the most critical in tone shaping to what I want. Next would be the tubes.

with respect, 10thtx

[martin manning]

Amps A,D,C,D, through speaker/cab Z will sound less different than amp A through speaker/cab W,X,Y,Z,

this view was reinforced recently when I watched this :
checkout 1:49:20

Missing link?

[norburybrook]

Amps A,D,C,D, through speaker/cab Z will sound less different than amp A through speaker/cab W,X,Y,Z,

this view was reinforced recently when I watched this :
checkout 1:49:20

Missing link?

sorry


it's great interview overall but the bit I mean at 1:49:20 was interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqK62gtmAo4


M

[Mark]

Marcus, so you mean amps through the same cab and speaker sound the same. You agree with the comment that the speaker and cab act as a comb filter?

I don't entirely agree as I've had my Champ though a 1 X 10" cab and my 6G7a Bandmaster through the same cab and they were very different. However this guy has a lot more form on the board than me and I'm prepared to concede the point.

[Bombacaototal]

I agree that speaker and cabinet change drastically the sound of an amp and are by far the easiest way to vary tone.

But if you listen to the video below which does an A/B comparisson of the Two Rock John Mayer and the PRS J-MOD through the same cabinet you can hear how different the amps sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWdJRGRGOJU

So different amps will not sound the same through the same speakers and cabinet.

[norburybrook]

Marcus, so you mean amps through the same cab and speaker sound the same. You agree with the comment that the speaker and cab act as a comb filter?

I don't entirely agree as I've had my Champ though a 1 X 10" cab and my 6G7a Bandmaster through the same cab and they were very different. However this guy has a lot more form on the board than me and I'm prepared to concede the point.

no I don't agree the sound the 'same' but the difference is a lot less than the difference you get with speakers/cabinets. He said he set all 8 amps up so they had a similar base tone and then swapped amps into the same cab after recording them. I've done the same thing in the studio and after a while the differences are subtle. I bet you could set up your two amps into the same speaker and with the right tone controls get them to sound fairly similar when recorded. I doubt he's talking driven tones.


I don't agree about 'comb filtering' I think he's using the wrong expression. The main thing about this video is it's showing a top level guitarist who is a real tone hound and lover of great amps/speakers making a point that speakers/mic position have more of an impact on tone than the amp itself. This is a guy who is working everyday, doing top level sessions high level tours in a town where the guitar/tone is still king.


all else being 'fairly' equal ther speaker/cabinet will have the biggest tonal difference in changing the sound of an amp.


IMHO


M

[martin manning]

Not the same, but less different ;^)

[norburybrook]

Not the same, but less different ;^)

[emoji3] indeed. I was impressed at the remote control swinging mic arm though.

M

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[martin manning]

Yes, very interesting. I like the remote control knob twiddlers too. I need to listen to the whole thing and understand what he’s got going on there.

Figuring out which components are most critical is worthy of discussion, but likely to spiral into subjective opinion. Years back I made a list that was very similar to Tony’s (was above, but now edited out?). I’m not sold on boutique or NOS parts being essential. Good quality parts made to the right specs using the right materials will get good results every time, IMO. Of course if no current production equivalent exists, salvaged or NOS is the only option.