5B6 What's it worth?

[Phil_S]

I don't build with intent to sell. This is a hobby. In February 2013 I finished a 5B6. It was just sitting around, as it is too loud for playing in the house. This past summer, I loaned it to a friend's daughter who is a part time musician, and shows some real talent. I just got it back from my friend who says one of the bandmates might be interested in buying it. Cosmetically, I did a reasonably nice job on it. It's reasonably tidy inside, but I don't built to a professional standard. I am guessing the build is $350 in parts, tubes and other materials, including the cab.

I've been asked for a price. I'm really at a loss here. Yes, it is a good sounding amp and there are no obvious issues like buzz or hum.

I'm not in it to make a profit. OTOH, I feel as if letting it go too cheap is a mistake. I'd like to be able to do a good turn for an aspiring young musician. I've got a couple of reservations. I'm concerned that the amp will be flipped for a quick profit. I will have no way of knowing and I'd like some level of disincentive to the buyer. Alternatively, I believe it is simply a mistake to let it go too cheap because the new owner won't value it appropriately.

I'd be grateful for advice or comments.

[xtian]

First thing: whether you're a hobbyist or not, Phil, you do nice work!

IMO, absolute minimum should be parts plus minimum wage. So, $350 (which sounds low to me) plus, what 30 hours? Round down if you like, but I wouldn't sell it for less than $600.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Yes, at least $600. If that feels high to you, then offer to keep the amp maintained for just the cost of parts - and extend this "warrantee" service to the original buyer only, which has the possible, yet 'unintended' benefit of dissuading the buyer from flipping the amp.

[M Fowler]

Amazing before I had a chance to roll the page down to reply I figured $600 was a good selling price and then I read the other posts. We think alike.

Nice build.

[Phil_S]

Thank you. I really appreciated it.
Phil

[boots]

I've been thinking a lot about this too lately. My wife is getting tired of me selling amps for the cost of the parts, so I tried to analyze what they are really worth. Take this with a grain of salt.

One formula is to simply double your cost. If I spend $300 on parts, speaker, and lumber, then the selling price should be about $600.

Another approach is to figure out how many hours you would actually spend building the amp (if you don't count working slowly and painstakingly, and getting interrupted, and going for a beer, etc.). How many hours would it take you to actually sit and build it if you worked straight through it, at a reasonable steady pace.

My best ballpark estimate of what it takes to build something like a Champ or an AX84 type of thing would be on the order of 20 hours.

If you consider that most shops would charge $40 an hour or more for a skilled technician, that comes to $800 in labor. Added to $300 in parts, that comes to $1100, which seems like a pretty realistic price for a nice boutique amp. Fender Pro Shop sells a Champ Reissue for about $1000, so that is in the ballpark.

However, most average Joe's are not going to pay $1100 for a 5 watt amp built by someone like Boots, so the $600 price tag seems to work better in the real world.

If I sell the amp for $600, and I have $300 in parts in it, I am making an hourly rate of $15 and hour, which is OK by me, but I certainly can't sell enough of them to make a living.

Which is why this is just a hobby for me.

[Colossal]

Great post Boots.

Phil, you seem almost apologetic for contemplating selling your amp and actually making a few bucks. Consider your investment in learning about electronics and experience, not just the sum of the parts. I think it is great that you built an amp that someone wants to pay you for! That's awesome and I know it sounds as good as it looks.

[M Fowler]

Don't let those guys out there fool you, they have no problem spending thousands on Chinese built crap amps and their effect pedals are bought and traded weekly.

I actually raised my prices when they started low balling me. I learned not to fall into their well could you build me this and that without cash up front non refundable.

Mark

[boots]

You're right Mark, I think people see us as builders as a cheap way to get a good tube amp.

The truth is, it really should cost them more to have a skilled craftsman spend 20 or 30 hours building an amp with great attention to every detail. With hand-selected components and tubes, some of which are rare and hard to find.

That should definitely be worth more. But most musicians aren't enough of an amp connoisseur to realize WHY our hand built amps are better than the mass produced ones.

I'm still waiting for the customer who is eager to pay $200 per tube for a Bugle Boy upgrade. It seems the only musicians who care about that sort of thing are us builders!

[Phil_S]

The discussion has shifted a bit, in a good sort of way. I'm glad to see it went in this direction.

I can understand where you might detect an apologetic tone in my question. It isn't that, really. It's that I am not building with intent to sell or have a business and am rather confounded when asked, "How much?"

I'm all for people having a profitable business, but that's not what we have here in this instance. If I had approached this from strictly a business perspective, I think I'd have asked $1,200 for the amp and I probably wouldn't have posted the question. It is a decent build and it has good looking but plain cosmetics. If you look at booteek builders for a basic toob amp of this ilk, with refined cosmetics, better quality parts, and more professional assembly, I think you are looking at $1,500 - $2,000 for a head.

I'd like to do a good turn for an aspiring 20-something. I'm in that zone where I know that no good deed goes unpunished. I guess I just want to attempt to limit that punishment.

I'm not at the same place as Mark. I'm pretty sure if I was, I'd feel the same way for a commissioned build. No low ball, 50% up front, and deliver a product with top level parts and cosmetics. Today, I'm willing to let it go for an under market price. I think I've explained why. Whether you agree is another matter. What I couldn't quite come to on my own was a price point and for that, I'm grateful for the helpful comments and discussion.

I've put it out there. I'll find out if the potential buyer has genuine interest. I honestly think $600 is enough to scare off someone who isn't serious. I haven't heard back and I will actually be surprised if it sells. I can always back out if I think I'm being scammed by a flipper.

[Structo]

Don't mean to be a debbie downer but another consideration is liability.

I'm sure you built your amp to the latest safety recommendations but, unless you are incorporated, you are at risk of liability if some knuckle dragger happens to electrocute himself.

Or he sells the amp and the next owner is even dumber......

Just suggesting another a view point from another angle.

When I have let a friend or other try a couple amps I have, they seem interested until I suggest a price.
Really strange phenom, it's the greatest amp since ever, until you say you will sell it at cost for $400, then the back peddling starts.
I said that was the cost in materials......

[Phil_S]

Don't mean to be a debbie downer but another consideration is liability.

I'm sure you built your amp to the latest safety recommendations but, unless you are incorporated, you are at risk of liability if some knuckle dragger happens to electrocute himself.

Or he sells the amp and the next owner is even dumber......

Just suggesting another a view point from another angle.

When I have let a friend or other try a couple amps I have, they seem interested until I suggest a price.
Really strange phenom, it's the greatest amp since ever, until you say you will sell it at cost for $400, then the back peddling starts.
I said that was the cost in materials......

Hey, that's not Debbie Downer stuff. It's real. It is the main reason I never even thought about making a business out of it. I am with you on what you say 100%. I am thinking $600 is sufficient to generate a non response from the interested party. It is, however, a fair price and probably a bargain price. I don't know who it is, so I can't even say he or she! I just know it's one of Maxie's musician friends.

In the back of my mind, my first thought was the person had in mind $250-$300, LOL, that's not grounded in reality. That's what you might pay for a Chinese made SS POS amp that lasts a year and then you put it on the curb for someone like you or me to find and turn into a tube amp!

[Structo]

Glad you took what I said as it was meant, a friend just trying to prevent any loss.

It brings to mind a year or so ago when I was in sad need of cash.

I had built two custom Telecasters with top shelf components.
They had dyed maple tops and are quite nice.
Couldn't sell either one for the asking price of $600 each.
What was sadder, is he got no offers.

In fact this was at a known highly rated vintage guitar store that does a lot of internet sales.

Strange......

[Phil_S]

People want good things. People don't want to pay for the good things they want. Internet has caused a lot of ruin. The price of everything is known or found in seconds. This information doesn't teach the value of anything. Old culture is being replaced, I think by something not as nice. I'm guilty, too.

[deeder]

As time goes by...
We don't get fooled again...