Acoustic Guitar Luthier Type Question

[boots]

I want to put a Tusq nut & bridge saddle on my Epiphone AJ200 acoustic (I know - this site is for Loud Electric Guitars).

My guitar has a transducer under the bridge saddle. It looks like a shim, but it has a wire coming out of it.

I want to raise the bridge just a tad to get a little more string clearance on the upper frets, but will adding a shim under (or on top of) the transducer affect how the transducer works? Does adding a shim under the bridge, in general, kill the natural sustain of the bridge mounted directly on the body?

It looks like Tusq saddles are only available in limited heights - you can't choose a higher one to get higher action. You have to go with what is available, and shim it, I guess, to get higher action.

Can anyone educate me on the ins & outs of shimming? Does anybody have expeerience with Tusq nuts/bridges?

[Reeltarded]

Yep yep yep and yes.

The shim is added to the bottom of the saddle and the transducer remains at the bottom of the slot.

The proper way is to buy one that is proud of the depth by more than you need and you sand the saddle bottom dead-flat to match the expected end result.

Rub: while you are in there check that your saddle slot is also dead-flat at the bottom. This is very important. Uneven response comes from anywhere the transducer doesn't have even pressure from the string(s) in that area. The saddle should be tight enough (thickness) not to wiggle even a bit, but loose enough to be easily pulled out with your fingertips.

I use 180-220g sandpaper on a 1.5" piece of flat milled steel for dead-flat. Anything else is a mess.

There is a trick to fitting depth. Draw a line on the face of the saddle with a technical pencil or a really fine sharpening job on a #2 with the saddle in place. The line follows the bridge exactly. Decide how much height you need to lose. Remove the saddle and transfer that measurement to the flat bottom of the saddle and start sanding.

Am I confusing? I am usually confusing.

[selloutrr]

My experience is shimming is not the correct way to do it.
As you stated you will be decoupling the strings from the body thus dampening the sustain.

The proper way would be the use of a higher nut.

The j200 series is a low action guitar if you want a more heavy playing acoustic try a guild or even takamini. Taylor and Martin are a relatively med height instrument for finger work and folk music.
The gibson line is more strumming and lead work.

[cbass]

Yep yep yep and yes..

I use 180-220g sandpaper on a 1.5" piece of flat milled steel for dead-flat. Anything else is a mess
Am I confusing? I am usually confusing.

I've been using 3/8's plate glass to get stuff flat is that not flat enough.

[cbass]

Yep yep yep and yes..

I use 180-220g sandpaper on a 1.5" piece of flat milled steel for dead-flat. Anything else is a mess
Am I confusing? I am usually confusing.

I've been using 3/8's plate glass to get stuff flat. is that not flat enough?

[Reeltarded]

Another great idea there.

[cbass]

My experience is shimming is not the correct way to do it.
As you stated you will be decoupling the strings from the body thus dampening the sustain.

The proper way would be the use of a higher nut.

The j200 series is a low action guitar if you want a more heavy playing acoustic try a guild or even takamini. Taylor and Martin are a relatively med height instrument for finger work and folk music.
The gibson line is more strumming and lead work.

I'm far from a pro or in anyway educated to be questioning pros.Just asking questions for my own amusement. but wouldn'nt raising the nut cause intonation issues on the first several frets,

[Reeltarded]

He means from a new blank instead of shimming.

I shim with bone and I bond it to the original part.. if that part is bone. Just to keep it playing as the player has always felt it. A new nut never does what the old one did until it's old.

[Cantplay]

I have a set of files for cleaning welding tips that I use to dress nuts.

John

[cbass]

Ive heard about those.Ive just been riggin stuff and using needle files and thin gauge sawas I get pretty good slots but only after a lot of work.I really want some gauged files

[dano-rator]

Cbass, float glass (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Float_glass) is the stuff you want for flatitude. Although, I just use a machined piece of granite and wet sandpaper for sharpening chisels, plane irons and other chores - it's good enough for me.

[Zippy]

I want to put a Tusq nut & bridge saddle on my Epiphone AJ200 acoustic (I know - this site is for Loud Electric Guitars).

I want to raise the bridge just a tad to get a little more string clearance on the upper frets, but will adding a shim under (or on top of) the transducer affect how the transducer works? Does adding a shim under the bridge, in general, kill the natural sustain of the bridge mounted directly on the body?

Can anyone educate me on the ins & outs of shimming? Does anybody have experience with Tusq nuts/bridges?

1) A luthier is a person that builds guitars. Your needs can be handled by a guitar tech - or yourself, if you are reasonably adept with minimal hand tools.

2) The saddle is the part that you want to adjust.

3) Have you checked the truss rod adjustment?

4) Changing the material in the interface between the transducer and the saddle will change the acoustic impedance of the system. Depending on how thick a shim you need, you might find a wood shim works well with your application. Some people use an ebony shim on purpose to tailor the response of an under-the-saddle element.

5) Tusq makes some instruments sound excessively brittle. I don't like it in all applications. Bone is still superior in many cases. Is there a reason that you have selected TUSQ for your guitar?

6) Whether you do this modification yourself or take it to a tech, make sure that you can test it plugged in before you put the tools away or pay the tech. Some of these transducers are very sensitive to having equal pressure from each string. If not, there could be a big difference in output (one string - or more - will sound really loud/weak compared to the rest).

[NickC]

Instructions that came with my Rainsong specify changing strings one at a time, so as to not displace the under-saddle transducers.

[boots]

Thanks Guys for all the good info.

Truth be told, I never play my acoustic through an amp anyway - I'm just a back-porch bluesman. But since the guitar has a transducer, I don't want to disrupt it. I'm a little heavy-handed and I have tried many different combinations of string gauge and truss rod adjustments to find what feels best to me. My final conclusion is that I need a little higher action.

I hate to mess with the nut, I would rather just try a different bridge saddle first and see if that helps. Tusq seems readily available and well advertised, but I have read that it doesn't hold a candle to bone. The stock saddle on the guitar looks like plastic, so anything would be an upgrade.

[NickC]

I have another electric-acoustic with an under-saddle piezo transducer and an onboard Telex mic. The piezo element is a thin strip that sits at the base of the bridge-saddle slot, with a wire on one side that travels down through the base of the slot to the preamp. It came with an assortment of plastic shims (thinner than a credit card) that fit between the piezo element and the saddle. Seems to work fine and is easy to adjust by adding, or removing, shims. Might be worth a try to add such a shim and see how that does?