Please Critique My HRM Clip

[odourboy]

Howdy!

I've just completed some mods to an HRM D-Clone that was actually started about 3 years ago. I recorded some samples today and I'd love to hear what you all have to say about the tone I'm getting. Any suggestions as to what might be the remaining problem(s) if it's off target would be most appreciated!

About the clip: It's consists of three segments. The first segment is has a clean side comp part and an OD lead part. Guitar was a PRS HB II, The second segment is just some noodling on my HSS Strat, OD only. The third is a bit of a homage to Dogears and consists of a backing track with OD lead with my HSS Strat. OD settings and mics were left the same for all three segments. Speaker is a EVM-12L in Thiele cab. Mics - SM57 close and a Samson condenser about 3 feet back.

Big thanks to Scott Lerner ad Andy Fuchs for helping me sort out some problems I had with this project. Thanks in advance to the rest of you if you can help me bring her home!

Cheers, OB

The Clip:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInf ... ID=5301345

[dogears]

Who is this Scott Lerner guy??

And why does Dogears seem so familiar???

I wonder is Dogears could attempt Giant Steps as you have!!! I bet not

PS: I need to check this out on my home system to critique. These work speakers are lame! Good playing btw.

[odourboy]

Who is this Scott Lerner guy??

And why does Dogears seem so familiar???

I wonder is Dogears could attempt Giant Steps as you have!!! I bet not

PS: I need to check this out on my home system to critique. These work speakers are lame! Good playing btw.

Yep - I guess I should have mentioned that Giant Steps is also a homage to Dogears!

Hope you're not pissed at my lame attempts to cop your tunes. Imitation is the best form of flattery isn't it?

Seriously, I look forward to your feedback.

Cheers!

[mdroberts1243]

Who is this Scott Lerner guy??

And why does Dogears seem so familiar???

I wonder is Dogears could attempt Giant Steps as you have!!! I bet not

PS: I need to check this out on my home system to critique. These work speakers are lame! Good playing btw.

Yep - I guess I should have mentioned that Giant Steps is also a homage to Dogears!

Hope you're not pissed at my lame attempts to cop your tunes. Imitation is the best form of flattery isn't it?

Seriously, I look forward to your feedback.

Cheers!

O.k. you guys got me excited... from the post exchange I thought I'd be able to go to Scott's site and get a 'bit' of an A/B comparison (albeit with different playing styles) between a Fuchs and a HRM Clone... but Scott's Giant Steps uses a POD.

I went around to try and find some other Dumble clips to compare against last night. To my ears (newbie ears, unqualified), there is something different in the mids on Odourboy's clip... and if I was pinned to the wall and had to use a word tossed around on clip reviews... is it a bit more 'honking' in the mids? Does anybody else in here feel the way I do?

That said, the playing on both sites is great and the tone is very nice too.

Now a question... would it be possible for a guitar maestro to produce a dry clip (recorded DI, but put through a good dumble-like amp for the benefit of the original player and dynamics of playing)? With a dry guitar clip we could have a reference piece that would provide A/B/C/D... comparisons. Does this work technically? Are results reproducible?

Finally, I'm looking forward to other feedback and critique to help develop my listening skills... one concern is the vocabulary though, I've yet to find a definitive glossary that explains honky, singing, etc. Anybody got something?

Thanks,

[heisthl]

singing = good
honky = bad





Sorry - I couldn't resist

[odourboy]

O.k. you guys got me excited... from the post exchange I thought I'd be able to go to Scott's site and get a 'bit' of an A/B comparison (albeit with different playing styles) between a Fuchs and a HRM Clone... but Scott's Giant Steps uses a POD.

I went around to try and find some other Dumble clips to compare against last night. To my ears (newbie ears, unqualified), there is something different in the mids on Odourboy's clip... and if I was pinned to the wall and had to use a word tossed around on clip reviews... is it a bit more 'honking' in the mids? Does anybody else in here feel the way I do?

That said, the playing on both sites is great and the tone is very nice too.

Now a question... would it be possible for a guitar maestro to produce a dry clip (recorded DI, but put through a good dumble-like amp for the benefit of the original player and dynamics of playing)? With a dry guitar clip we could have a reference piece that would provide A/B/C/D... comparisons. Does this work technically? Are results reproducible?

Finally, I'm looking forward to other feedback and critique to help develop my listening skills... one concern is the vocabulary though, I've yet to find a definitive glossary that explains honky, singing, etc. Anybody got something?

Thanks,

M,

First, thanks for taking the time to listen to my clip and to post some feedback. I can't argue with your observation (honking!? ) .. wish I could sound more like Scott - but there are lot of variables - different guitar, Fuchs (non-HRM) versus D-clone HRM, different speakers, recording techniques, pro calibre player versus geezer who has a hand like a foot....

I think you suggestion of a 'reference' set of clips is a dandy idea! I have some thoughts on this... maybe fodder for a separate thread?

To the rest.. Is it sounding dumble-esque or should I just stick to my day job? 100+ downloads and one critique? Come on guys! I'm dying here!

[Bob-I]

..... wish I could sound more like Scott -(

There are many of us who wish we could sound more like Scott, he's got amazing ability.

As for your amp... it doesn't quite have the smoothness in the mids. I'm not sure what's wrong, but you're very close. I might be as simple as getting a better Dumble touch on your playing. It took me quite awhile to get the right touch for these amps, firm and articulate. Too soft and brushed like will leave you with a less than smooth overdrive, too aggressive and it'll get gritty. Once you find the feel, you'll notice how touch sensitive these amps are.

Nice build!!

[odourboy]

As for your amp... it doesn't quite have the smoothness in the mids. I'm not sure what's wrong, but you're very close. I might be as simple as getting a better Dumble touch on your playing. It took me quite awhile to get the right touch for these amps, firm and articulate. Too soft and brushed like will leave you with a less than smooth overdrive, too aggressive and it'll get gritty. Once you find the feel, you'll notice how touch sensitive these amps are.

Nice build!!

Thank you Bob. Since both your and M have remarked on the mids, I'd like to dig into this further, so here's some questions for you:

First, so I know we're on the same page, when you refer to 'mids' are you specifically talking about the mid register on the guitar or the mid-range frequency (or maybe to you they're same). This is significant because I was enjoying what my amp was doing in the mid register of the guitar, and I was doing what I could to emphasize that, while I felt the higher register lacked some of that 'edge'. I'm suggesting that maybe my touch and amp setup might be counter to your preference?

Second, (touch issues aside, and don't get me wrong, a week of playing this amp hardly qualifies me as a novice, let alone an experienced player) Do you think the mid-range grit you heard could be attributed too much mid levels relative to the treble? Too little? (or something else entirely?) Which sort of leads to the next question since I have have some control over the tone balance:

Finally, when I dialed in this amp, I made a point of setting the clean volume and OD trimmer and gain such that the amp retained some transparency - i.e. the particular guitar, the PUP selection, tone settings would still come through if I backed off on the (guitar) volume a tad. Hit it hard, and I roll over into clipping terriotry. I have no idea if this is the 'sweet spot' I should be aiming for. So, setting up the amp for transparency compounded with the fact that I rolled back the tone controls to about half way for my clip segments may have influenced the mids. Comments?

[mdroberts1243]

I think you suggestion of a 'reference' set of clips is a dandy idea! I have some thoughts on this... maybe fodder for a separate thread?

To the rest.. Is it sounding dumble-esque or should I just stick to my day job? 100+ downloads and one critique? Come on guys! I'm dying here!

Maybe we could start another thread on dry 'test' clips... I think it must be feasible because Eminence seems to have done it with the clips they provide of Tomo Fujita playing through a Fuchs 50 and Bob Burt enclosures loaded with various Eminence speakers (including the RWB famous on this forum). They used a Boss loop station RX-20XL to capture the dry clips... http://www.eminence.com/soundclips.asp

I'm very interested in hearing other opinions on the sound of your amp too! I hope some of the golden (silver?) ears wade in...

[Bob-I]

Thank you Bob. Since both your and M have remarked on the mids, I'd like to dig into this further, so here's some questions for you:

First, so I know we're on the same page, when you refer to 'mids' are you specifically talking about the mid register on the guitar or the mid-range frequency (or maybe to you they're same). This is significant because I was enjoying what my amp was doing in the mid register of the guitar, and I was doing what I could to emphasize that, while I felt the higher register lacked some of that 'edge'. I'm suggesting that maybe my touch and amp setup might be counter to your preference?

Yes, that describes it well. It's not so much that the mid registers aren't right, it's more that the edge isn't there. I've found that pick attack has a lot to do with this edge, in fact at HiGain's house today he showed me how much changing the angle of his pick added edge to his tone, very suprising.

That said, you clip sound very good, I may be over critical here, looking for that "perfect tone".

Second, (touch issues aside, and don't get me wrong, a week of playing this amp hardly qualifies me as a novice, let alone an experienced player) Do you think the mid-range grit you heard could be attributed too much mid levels relative to the treble? Too little? (or something else entirely?) Which sort of leads to the next question since I have have some control over the tone balance:

Finally, when I dialed in this amp, I made a point of setting the clean volume and OD trimmer and gain such that the amp retained some transparency - i.e. the particular guitar, the PUP selection, tone settings would still come through if I backed off on the (guitar) volume a tad. Hit it hard, and I roll over into clipping terriotry. I have no idea if this is the 'sweet spot' I should be aiming for. So, setting up the amp for transparency compounded with the fact that I rolled back the tone controls to about half way for my clip segments may have influenced the mids. Comments?

You've just described how I like to set my own amps. I too like to roll off the tone's, unlike many guitarists that never use tone controls I like it a lot.

Again, great build and nice clip.

[Tonegeek]

Clean comp parts sounded very good to my ears. My comment concerns the OD sounds which I think would apply to the PRS and the Strat. I think the breakup could be smoother and less obvious (does not mean you have too much OD). Also seems like it needs some lower mids added. Either that or treble/uppermids could come down. You might be able to tweak the HRM tone controls for the tone part although your description about setting for transparency seems a good approach and similar to what I do. What works for me is setting the OD channel (including all the trims) to somewhat match the clean channel (OD on, but no PAB or mid boost). Then I play with the trimmer, Drive and Level to get the breakup and maybe work in some more lower mids. Finally I switch in PAB for the final tweaking to get a thick, smooth lead tone (I play a Strat, so you know it is a bit of work to do fat with single coil PUPS ). I almost never use OD without PAB. Are you using any bleeder caps (like across the OD level?) I would lift one end of any bleeders in the signal and see what happens.

Changing your touch may make some difference but won't compensate for the amp settings. My experience is when you get it right, hitting one note on your Strat will sound good no matter what your touch is. Then with a Humbucker, it will be effortless.

FWIW, I reference almost all my amp tweaks to "What would Robben do if he played a Strat?" Good Luck!

my $.02

[odourboy]

Thanks Tonegeek, and again, Bob for listening and talking the time to try and articulate your thoughts on the clip. I really appreciate it and rest assured that I'll take your suggestions to heart. Many of us, myself included are working in a bit of a vacuum since we don't have a good reference point (it's a challenge to dial in an amp when all you have is recordings that are often mixed and processed). Complicate the thing even further when you're not even sure if you've built it right!

Well, 'm not telling you guys anything you'd don't already know.

One more question, are there any clips on this board you could point me at that you think are exceptional in terms of providing a good reference for dialling in this amp?

Cheers, Brian