Non-amp Bass Guitar Setup Question

[SoundPerf]

Hey all, even though this is not an amp/electronic question, there are so many multi-talented technical experts here that someone may have some suggestions.

A friend gave me a Yamaha RBX-170 bass guitar to setup for him. (it's one of those cheapies that could be playable if everything is built properly) I've gotten pretty good at doing setups on guitars after many years of doing my own. But this one is giving me a problem and now I know why my friend kept saying the strings were buzzing. I have the truss rod completely loosened and can't enough relief in the neck. The necks right on the verge of having some relief so even a .010" more would be enough to get it reasonably playable. I should add that I have left the guitar sit for a couple days with string tension and the neck has not come into position.

I know that using shims at the neck base is sometimes needed for bass guitars, but I don't see where this would really help a neck that can't enough relief. I think that's more for getting the action better. I think I have seen necks being heat treated. Is this an option. (although, I'm not sure if that within the scope of what I want get into)

So anyway, any possible solutions that wouldn't mean a major ordeal.

Thanks

P.S. I actually setup a no-name $100 P/J style bass for my brother a few months ago that turned out great and is a great beater bass. So, I know that it possible to get a cheapy to work. But, I guess starting from a workable baseline is crucial.

[xtian]

Yeah, shim won't help, if you can already adjust string height how you want using saddles. Maybe you'll have to raise the action at the nut. Where is it fretting out or buzzing?

[SoundPerf]

Yeah, shim won't help, if you can already adjust string height how you want using saddles. Maybe you'll have to raise the action at the nut. Where is it fretting out or buzzing?

Thanks, it's fretting out at various spots on every string. As far as raising action at the bridge, seems like it will have to be so high that I personally find it "out of whack". The nuts a possibility, but I wish I could just get the neck having a bit more relief. I guess a heavier guage string may help? I suppose I have this want to have the neck so that I can actually tighten the truss rod some and still have some relief. Otherwise I feel the guitar is going to be subceptable to the slightest temp or humidity change. Maybe I'm over thinking this too much for a cheapy like this.

P.S. I should add that I'm a guitar player and not bass, but can get around a bass ok and feel like I have a decent idea of what a good bass setup should be. But I suppose it's all personal preference at some point.

[Bob-I]

For a beater, not a quality instrument, you can get around this by putting in some back bow, then dressing the frets out level. When you release the truss rod and string it up you should get enough forward relief to make it playable. The downside of course, is you'll take the frets in the middle of the scale down a tad lower than the rest, but it's a beater right?

The REAL fix is to pull the frets, re-dress the board, re-fret and dress the frets out. That would probably take more effort than its worth.

[SoundPerf]

For a beater, not a quality instrument, you can get around this by putting in some back bow, then dressing the frets out level. When you release the truss rod and string it up you should get enough forward relief to make it playable. The downside of course, is you'll take the frets in the middle of the scale down a tad lower than the rest, but it's a beater right?

The REAL fix is to pull the frets, re-dress the board, re-fret and dress the frets out. That would probably take more effort than its worth.

Yeah, it's one of those catch 22 things. I think a brand new model of this guitar is only $179.00. Actually, I've been messing with the action at the bridge and got it pretty decent. It's intonated and seems to be acceptable. I'm a pretty heavy handed player when I pick up a bass. I like slap'n it around a bit, so I may have been looking for more than is needed for the owner. He's more a country player. I'll give it back to the owner and see what he thinks. Your idea is something I didn't think about and maybe worth a try if he's not satisfied. Thanks

[skeezbo]

You have probably already considered this easy solution: have you tried heavier strings?

Skeeper

[Structo]

Depending on the scale length, a lot of basses will rattle the strings on the fret board.

Even on a properly setup bass, that is where good technique comes into play.

Ever hear Chris Squire on his Rickenbacker?
That's part of his signature sound.
Although a lot of that is from using a pick.

I have a fairly cheap five string bass I use for recording or when some one comes over to jam.
It has a 34" scale and the strings tend to act like rubber bands.

[Reeltarded]

Take something stiff and dead flat; angle iron that is the length of the neck, a workbench you can drag outside or whatever, place the neck frets toward the iron, shimmed out in the middle by a small amount, let's say 1/4" so it's going to force forward bow. Using thick leather strips, or newspaper folded over and wrapped in fabric, clamp the neck well in several places onto your iron, or similar object. Could even be a thicker jack (shim) and you control the bow with clamp tension.

On a bass I might use a 4 or 5 inch long shim centered at the worst buzzing area.

Some heat will help. Wood is like hair, we are trying to curl the neck. If you can place it in direct sunlight for an hour at a time, you can train the neck. Might take more than one go. Be aware of the twist as well. If one side buzzes worse than the other, you can compensate with more small shims on the buzzy side of the fingerboard toward the iron.

The truss rod should be loose, obviously.

Allow the neck to fully cool before removing from the surface of whatever you have it attached to. Check it with a straight edge against the frets, and apply thicker shims on the next try if it hasn't moved enough. Longer periods in medium heat are better than a heat gun, radiative heat is always the best.

G'luck! It's fun to fix stuff!

Forward bow gets two shims, one at each end of the fretted surface, and clamp in the middle.

[SoundPerf]

You have probably already considered this easy solution: have you tried heavier strings?

Yes I did/have. And you know it may be all that's needed. I just put the same guage that was on it previously. Which I imagine are standard for bass (.045" to .100") Also, I didn't want to suprise the owner with something he's not going to like. But it may be an option down the road.

Depending on the scale length, a lot of basses will rattle the strings on the fret board.

Even on a properly setup bass, that is where good technique comes into play.

Exactly, and I tend to like the rattle when it's controlled. As a huge YES fan and someone who has possesed a couple Rickenbacker 4001's I familiar with that type of neck and style.

But, it seems to me that a neck that can't achieve any relief with the truss rod completely loosened is improper. I guess I alway felt the truss rod's purpose was to add stability as well as give the ability to control how straight the neck is.

Take something stiff and dead flat; angle iron that is the length of the neck, a workbench you can drag outside or whatever, place the neck frets toward the iron, shimmed out in the middle by a small amount, let's say 1/4" so it's going to force forward bow. Using thick leather strips, or newspaper folded over and wrapped in fabric, clamp the neck well in several places onto your iron, or similar object. Could even be a thicker jack (shim) and you control the bow with clamp tension.

On a bass I might use a 4 or 5 inch long shim centered at the worst buzzing area.

Some heat will help. Wood is like hair, we are trying to curl the neck. If you can place it in direct sunlight for an hour at a time, you can train the neck. Might take more than one go. Be aware of the twist as well. If one side buzzes worse than the other, you can compensate with more small shims on the buzzy side of the fingerboard toward the iron.

The truss rod should be loose, obviously.

Allow the neck to fully cool before removing from the surface of whatever you have it attached to. Check it with a straight edge against the frets, and apply thicker shims on the next try if it hasn't moved enough. Longer periods in medium heat are better than a heat gun, radiative heat is always the best.

Thanks, this seems like what I was thinking about doing. Like I said, I have it pretty good, just the action is higher than what I would like it to be. I'm going to wait and see what the owner thinks and go from there.