directly to the sockets

[ckpop]

Something I have been thinking....... many different mods by Langer, Lee Jackson, Jose Arredondo,Caswell they all have one thing in common. Now before I mention it I realize it was done this way because of convenience and looked messy but I believe there is something to the idea. Everything was wired directly to sockets instead of running to a board. I feel this makes a difference in the sound of a mod or amp. One because of such a short path between components, grounds and other reasons. Now I know alot of us like to show our how neat we are and impress others with our work but at the same time are we missing something ? Am I alone on this idea ?

[Structo]

It's called point to point wiring and is the way everything used to be built.

But it takes some thought and knowledge to do it right or you end up with a very noisy device.

[ckpop]

I notice a difference direct point to point on the sockets over a point to point on a board like a older marshall. Just wondering if others have noticed this ? Matchless would be a good example.

[crbowman]

It's my understanding that any grid stoppers should be wired directly to the sockets to maximize their effectiveness, and in fact, I have in one case been able to tame oscillation by moving these off the board and onto the sockets.
Beyond that I think it's kind of a crap shoot. Changing the proximity and location of components does effect lead dress and consequently, tone. Now as to whether that change is desirable or not is a case by case question.

[Gaz]

I notice a difference direct point to point on the sockets over a point to point on a board like a older marshall. Just wondering if others have noticed this ? Matchless would be a good example.

Marshall and Fender are not point-to-point (although they may have a couple components wired that way), they are considered turret or eyelet board construction.

Either method can go well or all wrong, it really depends on the design. As far as mods, doing everything on the socket may mean long shielded runs to the front panel, so I don't think that's the best example of a more concise or efficient layout due to point-to-point style. Matchless on the other hand is a better example, or what they came up with at AX84, "The Gothik Ring."

[Structo]

I notice a difference direct point to point on the sockets over a point to point on a board like a older marshall. Just wondering if others have noticed this ? Matchless would be a good example.

True point to point does not use a board.
It is all on the components or using terminal strips as tie points.

[Zippy]

I notice a difference direct point to point on the sockets over a point to point on a board like a older marshall. Just wondering if others have noticed this ? Matchless would be a good example.

How have you noticed this difference? Have you A-B'd same (not similar) circuits, components and layouts?

Lead dress may be a factor here - the interaction between adjacent components. The difference in series resistance is very low as is the effect of parallel capacitance.

[Cliff Schecht]

In a very high gain situation the component clearances might make an audible effect. Even a few pF in a high gain circuit in the right place is enough to have an audible effect IME. This is where layout becomes as much of an art as it is a science (think Express tonestack wiring!) but I don't like to build amps that are this sensitive. Ken's stuff is the exception of course!

[husky]

I notice a difference direct point to point on the sockets over a point to point on a board like a older marshall. Just wondering if others have noticed this ? Matchless would be a good example.

One reason why mounting the tube socket in the board can be more direct and straight signal path than flying wires to the sockets. There can be capacitance in all those wires though that sweetens amps up and some retweaking is sometimes necessary when using a shorter signal path.

Kind of like when everyone starts using ultra low capacitance shorter cables and then complain the single coils are brighter.

[Cliff Schecht]

I notice a difference direct point to point on the sockets over a point to point on a board like a older marshall. Just wondering if others have noticed this ? Matchless would be a good example.

One reason why mounting the tube socket in the board can be more direct and straight signal path than flying wires to the sockets. There can be capacitance in all those wires though that sweetens amps up and some retweaking is sometimes necessary when using a shorter signal path.

Kind of like when everyone starts using ultra low capacitance shorter cables and then complain the single coils are brighter.

It's easy to design in some small capacitance on a PCB, either with discrete parts or with traces, that could simulate long wire runs and their capacitance. The latter is a bit tricker but I've done stuff like this for some of the medical and RF projects I have worked on in the past.

People tend to neglect wire and lead inductances in their amps as well but in sensitive amps like the Express this plays a role in getting the sound right and getting the amp stable (think tweaking the tonestack wires for stability). All wires can be modeled by an RLC circuit in series with a perfect short and doing so (making short wire runs with stuffable RLC options) on a PCB might lead to some interesting discoveries about how much inductance is not only tolerable but desirable. You could then manufacture an amp like the Express with much more consistency than hand-wiring allows for (all other variables aside of course).

[Reeltarded]

Kind of like when everyone starts using ultra low capacitance shorter cables and then complain the single coils are brighter.

The magic in dirty amps is all about the instability.

Your amps sound great, btw.