I've got a RF era Dumble clone/rig that I'm finishing up and going to be taking public in the next month or so... I've voiced it a little different (more lower-mid focused on the slope) than a true RF amp, but that happens to be where my tone lives.
I'm using a Dumbleator with RG-400 cables to cut those unpleasant highs, and I'm going to have a G Major II in an extended, two-rack space head cab (just got the cabinet joints "dry fitted" in the garage late yesterday). Electronically this amp has been running for about two months and sounds great. I got the G Major II about two weeks ago, and I DO hear the impact of the "digital" in the effects. I thought that the sterile/digital sound might be an issue, so I've been looking at the Suhr Minimix II since I'd decided to go with a rack effects unit. So before I pulled the trigger on the Suhr, I wanted to see if anyone had any opinion on either the Minimix II or the Xotic X-Blender. The $50+/- difference in price makes it worth asking about. So....
I know that a number of Dumble-esque and non-Dumble clone players use these effects interfaces, so anybody have any good or bad experiences with either? Are the extra X-Blender features worth getting it? I've not heard any negative reviews of either, but I leaned toward the Minimix II because Suhr has an amazing reputation.
If I go with the Minimix II, it'll go in the bottom rear of the head cab. The X-Blender would have to go on the floor (size and to access the controls).
I'm also looking forward to a Voodoo Labs Ground Control Pro in the new year. If anybody would recommend something different on the midi foot controller front too, please do...
I'm going to be pulling the trigger on either the MinimixII or the X-Blender in a couple of weeks. I'm planning on a January 1 debut for the rig. Then I'll probably add and/or subtract some pedals over the next six months to a year, so then I'll be able to integrate the midi controller once the rig is stabilized.
Wow, talk about being efficient with my posts!!! One thread for everything.
Thanks everyone!!!!
X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Bump for one more try...
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Kevster,
If you are set on going with the ground control pro (a good choice in my mind) then see about picking up a digital music system mix unit. It's a single space rack unit that lets you bring in up to 4 different signals, so can be multiple amps, preamps, etc. then you can add effects either in series or parallel to the original signals. I use it in a wet/dry setup but can work in an effects loop as well.
Not only do you get to keep the dry amp signal sounding good, but you also can put your effects in parallel with each other instead of in series.
It all comes down to what you are looking for and how elaborate of a setup you want.
Voodoo labs doesn't make the system mix unit anymore nut may be able to find a used one.
Sean
If you are set on going with the ground control pro (a good choice in my mind) then see about picking up a digital music system mix unit. It's a single space rack unit that lets you bring in up to 4 different signals, so can be multiple amps, preamps, etc. then you can add effects either in series or parallel to the original signals. I use it in a wet/dry setup but can work in an effects loop as well.
Not only do you get to keep the dry amp signal sounding good, but you also can put your effects in parallel with each other instead of in series.
It all comes down to what you are looking for and how elaborate of a setup you want.
Voodoo labs doesn't make the system mix unit anymore nut may be able to find a used one.
Sean
-
vibratoking
- Posts: 2640
- Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:55 pm
- Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
I have been using a GC Pro for about 5 years or so. I also use an RG-16 from RJM Music along with a Dumbleator and a MiniMix II in the loop. With several amps, but mainly a 183/102 clone.
This gives me ALOT of flexibility to program complex effects and switching. I can also do the switching individually. It's the best of both worlds IMO. The RJM has audio loops and function switches that can be controlled by the GC Pro. The RG let's me switch in/out effects and also switch features on the amp like OD, PAB, Mid boost. I can control rack effect patches and set the effect level with a volume pedal hooked to the GC Pro that translates the resistance to midi CC messages. There is massive power in a rig like this.
I am very picky about signal degradation and I cannot hear any with this setup.
This gives me ALOT of flexibility to program complex effects and switching. I can also do the switching individually. It's the best of both worlds IMO. The RJM has audio loops and function switches that can be controlled by the GC Pro. The RG let's me switch in/out effects and also switch features on the amp like OD, PAB, Mid boost. I can control rack effect patches and set the effect level with a volume pedal hooked to the GC Pro that translates the resistance to midi CC messages. There is massive power in a rig like this.
I am very picky about signal degradation and I cannot hear any with this setup.
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Very cool and yes lots of flexibility. I didn't know the GC pro was compatible with the RJM. I assumed it only worked with the loop device from Voodoo labs.
You can also use the GC Pro to punch in tap tempos, repeat functions, and latching or momentary features. Very flexible.
Sean
You can also use the GC Pro to punch in tap tempos, repeat functions, and latching or momentary features. Very flexible.
Sean
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Well, there's plenty of new information in these replies....
The GC Pro could control my G Major II, and the G Major II could then control my amp (with some cable modification) channels (etc.) via the foot controller. When I have some stomp boxes added in the mix, then I have to go with something like the GCX to allow more elaborate control. I won't know what pedals I'll keep until I drive the rig for a while. I'm hoping that any front-end pedals are static on (like a light compression pedal), a wah, or individual OD pedals. I have three OD pedals right now, and I can really dance with OD, Delays, etc. The dancing could be minimized with just the GC Pro, but we'll see.
Definitely doing only one amp. ODS clone with a Thiele EVM-12L... It'll be a while for anything else of substance.
The mixer is a cool idea, but it may not be practical with the one amp. I'm definitely going to research that though. I know Larry Carlton uses a PA mixer and a pair of PA speakers to have FULL CONTROL (big time control issues there!!!) of his signal. The rack space System Mixer would be able to do some of that blending. If the mixer could be midi-controlled, that could be a VERY COOL thing and make it a much better alternative to just a GCX type controller.
It might also be a bit outside my budget. That rig sounds like a couple grand +. I can't sail that through the budget committee (wife).
Thanks for the info!
The GC Pro could control my G Major II, and the G Major II could then control my amp (with some cable modification) channels (etc.) via the foot controller. When I have some stomp boxes added in the mix, then I have to go with something like the GCX to allow more elaborate control. I won't know what pedals I'll keep until I drive the rig for a while. I'm hoping that any front-end pedals are static on (like a light compression pedal), a wah, or individual OD pedals. I have three OD pedals right now, and I can really dance with OD, Delays, etc. The dancing could be minimized with just the GC Pro, but we'll see.
Definitely doing only one amp. ODS clone with a Thiele EVM-12L... It'll be a while for anything else of substance.
The mixer is a cool idea, but it may not be practical with the one amp. I'm definitely going to research that though. I know Larry Carlton uses a PA mixer and a pair of PA speakers to have FULL CONTROL (big time control issues there!!!) of his signal. The rack space System Mixer would be able to do some of that blending. If the mixer could be midi-controlled, that could be a VERY COOL thing and make it a much better alternative to just a GCX type controller.
It might also be a bit outside my budget. That rig sounds like a couple grand +. I can't sail that through the budget committee (wife).
Thanks for the info!
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Yep, a lot of stuff to digest at one time.
If you do go the mixer route, the one from Digital Music Corp., used with the Ground Control will allow you to do midi commands, changes, etc. and also allows you to run any signal through a port that has volume control through an expression pedal.
So i have the output of the mixer going through this VCA port, so with a volume pedal I can easily adjust the overall mix level of the effects. I like having that so I don't have to have multiple presets on the EFX, one for a slight delay, one for mid, one for heavy U2/Gilmore stuff. Comes in handy.
Of course you could do the same thing with a basic volume pedal, but then you have to run cords all over the place, and this is integrated into the switching system.
It's definitely a lot of trial and error, so taking the rig out for test drives is the way to find out what works for you.
good luck.
sean
If you do go the mixer route, the one from Digital Music Corp., used with the Ground Control will allow you to do midi commands, changes, etc. and also allows you to run any signal through a port that has volume control through an expression pedal.
So i have the output of the mixer going through this VCA port, so with a volume pedal I can easily adjust the overall mix level of the effects. I like having that so I don't have to have multiple presets on the EFX, one for a slight delay, one for mid, one for heavy U2/Gilmore stuff. Comes in handy.
Of course you could do the same thing with a basic volume pedal, but then you have to run cords all over the place, and this is integrated into the switching system.
It's definitely a lot of trial and error, so taking the rig out for test drives is the way to find out what works for you.
good luck.
sean
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Luthierwnc
- Posts: 998
- Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:59 am
- Location: Asheville, NC
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
I was wondering the same thing so I emailed Xotic. Here's what I got (start at the bottom and work up):
Ok. Thanks for the schematic. it seems that the dumbleator can be used with the x-blender.
The effects unit connects to the blender should be suited for -10dB line signal.
Thank you for your inquiry.
Regards,
Xotic Effects USA
cs@xoticeffects.com
www.xotic.us
On Dec 2, 2011, at 9:12 PM, Skip wrote:
> I'm not sure. The device is a tube driven serial active loop inserted
> at the send/return junction of the amp just before the phase inverter.
> Some versions of the amp have the master volume after that point and
> some before but by then it has been through two gain stages (or four
> if the overdrive is on).
>
> The device itself is a gain stage with a cathode follower that is
> often used by itself to thicken the tone. Both stages have pots after
> the triode to adjust the send and return. Between the stages the
> device has its own send/return jacks that, if used, usually have
> time-based FX. To keep the effects from sucking tone, a lot of people
> use a Minimix II plugged in at that point as a summing amp.
>
> The X-Blender looks like it could do the same thing but the diagrams
> only show it taking instrument signals. I guess it is just a question
> of whether it will pad down to take a line level feed at the phase inverter.
>
> Attached is a schematic of the Dumbleator. There are solid-state
> versions as well. I know it isn't your job to research other people's
> circuits but there might be a good market for you with the Dumble
> cloners if this puts the finishing touch on the chain. Thanks again,
> Skip
>
> Do you know what kind of line level signal does the dumblator accommodate ?
>
> Thank you for your inquiry.
>
> Regards,
>
> Xotic Effects USA
> cs@xoticeffects.com
> www.xotic.us
>
Hello, I
>> would like to know if you recommend this (or another o f your
>> products) as a parallel buffer/summing amp for use betwe en the send
>> and return of an active loop (Dumbleator)? Reviews have been very
>> good but the only ones I could find were on the floor with
>> instrument-level feeds rather than voltages going i nto the phase
>> inverter. No hurry and thanks, Skip
Ok. Thanks for the schematic. it seems that the dumbleator can be used with the x-blender.
The effects unit connects to the blender should be suited for -10dB line signal.
Thank you for your inquiry.
Regards,
Xotic Effects USA
cs@xoticeffects.com
www.xotic.us
On Dec 2, 2011, at 9:12 PM, Skip wrote:
> I'm not sure. The device is a tube driven serial active loop inserted
> at the send/return junction of the amp just before the phase inverter.
> Some versions of the amp have the master volume after that point and
> some before but by then it has been through two gain stages (or four
> if the overdrive is on).
>
> The device itself is a gain stage with a cathode follower that is
> often used by itself to thicken the tone. Both stages have pots after
> the triode to adjust the send and return. Between the stages the
> device has its own send/return jacks that, if used, usually have
> time-based FX. To keep the effects from sucking tone, a lot of people
> use a Minimix II plugged in at that point as a summing amp.
>
> The X-Blender looks like it could do the same thing but the diagrams
> only show it taking instrument signals. I guess it is just a question
> of whether it will pad down to take a line level feed at the phase inverter.
>
> Attached is a schematic of the Dumbleator. There are solid-state
> versions as well. I know it isn't your job to research other people's
> circuits but there might be a good market for you with the Dumble
> cloners if this puts the finishing touch on the chain. Thanks again,
> Skip
>
> Do you know what kind of line level signal does the dumblator accommodate ?
>
> Thank you for your inquiry.
>
> Regards,
>
> Xotic Effects USA
> cs@xoticeffects.com
> www.xotic.us
>
Hello, I
>> would like to know if you recommend this (or another o f your
>> products) as a parallel buffer/summing amp for use betwe en the send
>> and return of an active loop (Dumbleator)? Reviews have been very
>> good but the only ones I could find were on the floor with
>> instrument-level feeds rather than voltages going i nto the phase
>> inverter. No hurry and thanks, Skip
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Cool. Thanks!!! It's great to know that there are TWO options that seem to be able to eliminate/mitigate the tone sucking of digital effects in the Dumble rig.
And since I'm going shopping for one as soon as THIS AFTERNOON, this is pretty timely!!!
Thanks again!
And since I'm going shopping for one as soon as THIS AFTERNOON, this is pretty timely!!!
Thanks again!
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Just for the record the MiniMix II runs on 30V rail to rail so you have excellent headroom. You also have isolation transformers built in to eliminate ground loops 
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Just a bit of an update...
Ok, so the priorities got shuffled a bit. I now have a Ground Control Pro and one less Marshall combo amp. I am currently using the GCP with the G Major II and that is it. I still have a compressor, two OD pedals, an EQ (for a boost pedal), and a volume pedal in front of the amp.
Here's my latest idea: The System Mix Plus is pricey and unsupported, so I can't go with one of those. I've accepted that I'm going to have to get a rack case (a power conditioner, a GCX, and a rack drawer for most of my pedals) to get where I want to go. The finished product will be: guitar > GCX in > GCX: 1) Compressor; 2) Zendrive; 3) OCD; 4) EQ/Boost; > GCX Out > Volume Pedal (Tuner Slave) > ODS Input > Dumbleator >G Major II > Dumbleator > ODS Power Amp.
The G Major II will be connected to the ODS to control the Boost and OD Channel via the GCP.
The G Major II also through a Suhr Minimix (MM) II for quality...
I was thinking about putting the Zendrive on a MM II at some point as well. That would make THAT a mixed OD so I could get the "amp mixer" sound without two amps. I could run the ODS clean and kick in the Zen for a parallel OD. The Volume knob on the Zen should act as a line level just like the Output on my G Major II. Only using one amp, but getting pretty much the same result as a clean amp and OD amp running together. Of course, without all those issues that comes with the flaky soundman having a coronary from too much volume.
I know, by the time I buy two MM II's, I've pretty much paid for a System Mix Plus... I just really don't want to own something that hasn't been made or supported for years. I don't really know of a good mixer alternative or that I would want to try to "blend" two different manufacturers' products...
Any comments or suggestions?
Any would be appreciated!!
Ok, so the priorities got shuffled a bit. I now have a Ground Control Pro and one less Marshall combo amp. I am currently using the GCP with the G Major II and that is it. I still have a compressor, two OD pedals, an EQ (for a boost pedal), and a volume pedal in front of the amp.
Here's my latest idea: The System Mix Plus is pricey and unsupported, so I can't go with one of those. I've accepted that I'm going to have to get a rack case (a power conditioner, a GCX, and a rack drawer for most of my pedals) to get where I want to go. The finished product will be: guitar > GCX in > GCX: 1) Compressor; 2) Zendrive; 3) OCD; 4) EQ/Boost; > GCX Out > Volume Pedal (Tuner Slave) > ODS Input > Dumbleator >G Major II > Dumbleator > ODS Power Amp.
The G Major II will be connected to the ODS to control the Boost and OD Channel via the GCP.
The G Major II also through a Suhr Minimix (MM) II for quality...
I was thinking about putting the Zendrive on a MM II at some point as well. That would make THAT a mixed OD so I could get the "amp mixer" sound without two amps. I could run the ODS clean and kick in the Zen for a parallel OD. The Volume knob on the Zen should act as a line level just like the Output on my G Major II. Only using one amp, but getting pretty much the same result as a clean amp and OD amp running together. Of course, without all those issues that comes with the flaky soundman having a coronary from too much volume.
I know, by the time I buy two MM II's, I've pretty much paid for a System Mix Plus... I just really don't want to own something that hasn't been made or supported for years. I don't really know of a good mixer alternative or that I would want to try to "blend" two different manufacturers' products...
Any comments or suggestions?
Any would be appreciated!!
-
Marioverkill
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:23 pm
- Location: NB,Canada
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Hi !
I don't want to throw a wrench in things,but:
If you want to preserve the tone you seem to have carefully crafted,the best way is W/D or W/D/W.You could run W/D with one of those tech21 Power engine 60.It is a powered 1x12,fairly new and supported.You built your amp so you could easily add a line out from the speakers with a resistor,pot and jack.You feed your Gmajor II with it and send to the power engine 60.The power engine 60 sells for 340 USD.
I own/use a G Major II,own a Suhr minimix II.The minimix is a great product.However,you will still have the the sound of the slightly thrashed tone of the effects(from the quality of the ad/da's in the GM2)competing with your pristine tone in the same speaker.
Later. for another 340$,you could add one more Power engine 60 and have a W/D/W.
I know this is quite different from your present direction,but it is just another option.
P.S I have been using a GCP and GCX for 6 years playing out about once a month and only replaced one switch on the GCP.You can't get a better one for the price IMO.
Mario
I don't want to throw a wrench in things,but:
If you want to preserve the tone you seem to have carefully crafted,the best way is W/D or W/D/W.You could run W/D with one of those tech21 Power engine 60.It is a powered 1x12,fairly new and supported.You built your amp so you could easily add a line out from the speakers with a resistor,pot and jack.You feed your Gmajor II with it and send to the power engine 60.The power engine 60 sells for 340 USD.
I own/use a G Major II,own a Suhr minimix II.The minimix is a great product.However,you will still have the the sound of the slightly thrashed tone of the effects(from the quality of the ad/da's in the GM2)competing with your pristine tone in the same speaker.
Later. for another 340$,you could add one more Power engine 60 and have a W/D/W.
I know this is quite different from your present direction,but it is just another option.
P.S I have been using a GCP and GCX for 6 years playing out about once a month and only replaced one switch on the GCP.You can't get a better one for the price IMO.
Mario
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Great idea!!! I would love to go this way, but I need to be able to put a mic in front of whatever I've got... I could do a 2 x 12 cab arrangement with W & D to separate speakers. At least I could put it in an isocab.Marioverkill wrote:Hi !
I don't want to throw a wrench in things,but:
If you want to preserve the tone you seem to have carefully crafted,the best way is W/D or W/D/W.You could run W/D with one of those tech21 Power engine 60.It is a powered 1x12,fairly new and supported.You built your amp so you could easily add a line out from the speakers with a resistor,pot and jack.You feed your Gmajor II with it and send to the power engine 60.The power engine 60 sells for 340 USD.
I own/use a G Major II,own a Suhr minimix II.The minimix is a great product.However,you will still have the the sound of the slightly thrashed tone of the effects(from the quality of the ad/da's in the GM2)competing with your pristine tone in the same speaker.
Later. for another 340$,you could add one more Power engine 60 and have a W/D/W.
I know this is quite different from your present direction,but it is just another option.
P.S I have been using a GCP and GCX for 6 years playing out about once a month and only replaced one switch on the GCP.You can't get a better one for the price IMO.
Mario
The effects... I have to have a good delay for what I play, so I can't do without... I could get the X-Blender and back out the GM II as much as possible to see if I can minimize the digital impact.
I'll have to think some more on this one.
I like your thinking though. You get what I'm shooting for...
Thanks!
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Funny, I have been considering the Xotic X Blender as well.
In comparing the X Blender to the Suhr Mini Mix II, it seems more versatile.
Not only can you choose serial to parallel looping, you can actively adjust the Wet/ Dry mix.
It also has a phase switch, volume, bass and treble controls for more control of your tone.
This seems like it would work well in the Dumbleator loop.
I found it for $176 with free shipping through Amazon.
I have bought quite a bit of stuff through Amazon and haven't had a bad experience yet.
If you don't already have one, you can apply for a Amazon credit card and they will give you a $50 gift credit.
I did that the other day and got two new extension phones for my house.
In comparing the X Blender to the Suhr Mini Mix II, it seems more versatile.
Not only can you choose serial to parallel looping, you can actively adjust the Wet/ Dry mix.
It also has a phase switch, volume, bass and treble controls for more control of your tone.
This seems like it would work well in the Dumbleator loop.
I found it for $176 with free shipping through Amazon.
I have bought quite a bit of stuff through Amazon and haven't had a bad experience yet.
If you don't already have one, you can apply for a Amazon credit card and they will give you a $50 gift credit.
I did that the other day and got two new extension phones for my house.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
-
Marioverkill
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:23 pm
- Location: NB,Canada
Re: X-Blender or Minimix II, which one???
Do you mean you can only use 1 mic(1 channel on the board)?kevster wrote:Great idea!!! I would love to go this way, but I need to be able to put a mic in front of whatever I've got... I could do a 2 x 12 cab arrangement with W & D to separate speakers. At least I could put it in an isocab.Marioverkill wrote:Hi !
I don't want to throw a wrench in things,but:
If you want to preserve the tone you seem to have carefully crafted,the best way is W/D or W/D/W.You could run W/D with one of those tech21 Power engine 60.It is a powered 1x12,fairly new and supported.You built your amp so you could easily add a line out from the speakers with a resistor,pot and jack.You feed your Gmajor II with it and send to the power engine 60.The power engine 60 sells for 340 USD.
I own/use a G Major II,own a Suhr minimix II.The minimix is a great product.However,you will still have the the sound of the slightly thrashed tone of the effects(from the quality of the ad/da's in the GM2)competing with your pristine tone in the same speaker.
Later. for another 340$,you could add one more Power engine 60 and have a W/D/W.
I know this is quite different from your present direction,but it is just another option.
P.S I have been using a GCP and GCX for 6 years playing out about once a month and only replaced one switch on the GCP.You can't get a better one for the price IMO.
Mario
The effects... I have to have a good delay for what I play, so I can't do without... I could get the X-Blender and back out the GM II as much as possible to see if I can minimize the digital impact.
I'll have to think some more on this one.
I like your thinking though. You get what I'm shooting for...
Thanks!