David Root wrote:I have a slant half stack with four Pro 12A in it. Sounds fine to me, and it does not have the fizz you can get on the EV12L. My high end perception suffers from "oldtimerz" but I can still hear that EV fizz.
David,
EV does not have a fizz. It just perfectly reproduces amp's drive fizz.
On the other hand four Pro 12A’s in a closed back cab will reduce the top and enough to eliminate an amp’s fizz.
My Marshall plexi has annoying fizz with EV when all my ODS’s are silky smooth with it.
Cheers
Thanx Eric, I am going to have to try some of my other amps on it. It is currently in a ported Thiele 806 type cab built by Boogafunk. Tom (Structo) said he had the same problem with his EVs, but different cabinet I think.
I own a well worn in EV12L and it does reveal some high end fizz with some amps - not with others. As do the G1265 speakers. Seems to me you can adjust the amp for the speaker, or swap the speaker out to something darker like a RWB or Delta 12A. I always thought those DeltaLite neos were bass amp or reinforcement speakers that roll off at 4k. Is this a new model being discussed? Is there a link?
stelligan wrote:I own a well worn in EV12L and it does reveal some high end fizz with some amps - not with others. As do the G1265 speakers. Seems to me you can adjust the amp for the speaker, or swap the speaker out to something darker like a RWB or Delta 12A. I always thought those DeltaLite neos were bass amp or reinforcement speakers that roll off at 4k. Is this a new model being discussed? Is there a link?
Thanks..
Here's links to the specs of both the Delta Pro & Delta Lite:
The response curves look pretty similar, but the Lite has a little more top end.
Anyway, I now have a Deltalite in my Fuchs ODS100 combo and I can attest that it IS brighter than the Delta Pro, noticably. It has a good bottom end and so far so good I like it. It doesn't have the warmth of the Pro yet but that may be a break in issue, I'm going to stick with it and gig the amp in this config and see how it fairs in a live situation.
BTW, the combo is MUCH more manageble to move around now, which is definately a plus!
CHeers,
Rob.
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Rob Livesey
Manchester, UK
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stelligan wrote:I own a well worn in EV12L and it does reveal some high end fizz with some amps - not with others. As do the G1265 speakers. Seems to me you can adjust the amp for the speaker, or swap the speaker out to something darker like a RWB or Delta 12A. I always thought those DeltaLite neos were bass amp or reinforcement speakers that roll off at 4k. Is this a new model being discussed? Is there a link?
Thanks..
Here's links to the specs of both the Delta Pro & Delta Lite:
The response curves look pretty similar, but the Lite has a little more top end.
Anyway, I now have a Deltalite in my Fuchs ODS100 combo and I can attest that it IS brighter than the Delta Pro, noticably. It has a good bottom end and so far so good I like it. It doesn't have the warmth of the Pro yet but that may be a break in issue, I'm going to stick with it and gig the amp in this config and see how it fairs in a live situation.
BTW, the combo is MUCH more manageble to move around now, which is definately a plus!
CHeers,
Rob.
Well looking at those curves, I see the Delta Pro is at about 88 dB at 5K, which is about 15dB below it's peak of 103 dB. The DeltaLite is at about 83 dB at 5K, which is about 23 dB below it's peak of 106dB. This would suggest the DeltaLite is the DARKER of the two to me. I believe you're identifying the larger mid-range peak of the DeltaLite as brightness.
None the less, please keep us posted after break-in Rob. Like i said, I really wanted it to work and I still have one here. I may have to give it a second chance.
"Let's face it, the non HRMs are easier to play, there, I've said it." - Gil Ayan... AND HE"S IN GOOD COMPANY!
IMO the Delta Lite is one of the best sounding Neos I've heard for a D-style or OD style amp..I've installed quite a few in 2X12 and single 12 combinations..The problem I have with them and many other Neo's is if you position yourself directly in front of it there is a spot that beams a 1k/2k frequency at you and with an OD type amp can get pretty harsh sounding (Broken in is better but never completely goes away)..The Delta Pro is a bit flatter in 1k/ 2k area... Speakers I prefer in an OD type amp usually have a dip around the 1K area (Take a look at the G12-65 as an example)
The Delta L has a pretty good spike just after 1K this is what I am talking about..If your not on top or directly in front of the amp it's not that big a deal as is an off center mic
Also Neo speakers seem to be a bit faster than the conventional ceramic changing the feel somewhat possibly due to the higher gauss..
Hope This Helps Rob
Tony
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Last edited by talbany on Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
talbany wrote:IMO the Delta Lite is one of the best sounding Neos I've heard for a D-style or OD style amp..I've installed quite a few in 2X12 and single 12 combinations..The problem I have with them and many other Neo's is if you position yourself directly in front of it there is a spot that beams a 1k/2k frequency at you and with an OD type amp can get pretty harsh sounding (Broken in is better but never completely goes away).
Does a beam blocker (or similar) help with that? I'm hopeful about Neo speakers, but I'm holding off until there's real consensus that they have arrived.
Last edited by jaysg on Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
talbany wrote:IMO the Delta Lite is one of the best sounding Neos I've heard for a D-style or OD style amp..I've installed quite a few in 2X12 and single 12 combinations..The problem I have with them and many other Neo's is if you position yourself directly in front of it there is a spot that beams a 1k/2k frequency at you and with an OD type amp can get pretty harsh sounding (Broken in is better but never completely goes away).
Does a beam blocker (or similiar) help with that? I'm hopeful about Neo speakers, but I'm holding off until there's real consensus that they have arrived.
Sure a beam blocker will help and I was going to mention that..The best I've found is a cross cut into the baffle w/round center..In a small club with the amp at your feet beam blockers work surprisingly well..
IMO Neo's have come a long way in the past 10 years but still have their quirks when comparing them to the ceramics.. The problem is so many of us are used to the sound feel of a ceramic and Neo's have their own thing.. I am not so sure they will be able to fully replicate a ceramic but I too am hopeful!!
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
If you watch videos of SRV at Montreaux (the first ones) you'll notice that Rene puts big duct tape X's across the grill cloth of his amps (the ones that aren't under a blanket). I use this on my 1x12 cab when I'm not in the studio to knock down the shrillness for people who are offstage and have the cab at ear level.
To continue down this little distraction, there's also Jay Mitchell's foam doughnut from TGP. The theory AFAIK is that the objectionable frequencies are largely blocked or diffused by the foam, and the hole in the middle makes for a point source for those frequencies, which inherently has better dispersion.
That said, I've wondered about what frequencies are realistically affected by this. If the beamy frequency really is 1kHz or so, I'm not sure how effective this would be. I'd expect it to affect frequencies a lot more about 5kHz or so.
Here's a friend of mine playing his Paul through a 50W HRM I built and a DeltaPro 12A in an oval open back 1X12 cab. Showcases what that speaker can do nicely IMHO.
FWIW..The human ear is most sensitive around 2-5 kHz. To be audible at this minimum level, a sound at 20Hz must be 80 dB (100 million times!) more powerful than a sound at 3 kHz.
http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/EARS.htm
)
The Delta L peak resonant frequency is around 2.5K (right at the most sensitive area) so it will also appear louder..
FWIW.. Iv'e had this discussion with Lindy Fralin several times and his opinion was that resonant frequency peakes in the 1k-2k range were un-desirable in tube driven guitar amps..His exact words..Harsh..I agree!!
Just another opinion to chew on..
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
I looked at this again. Since the last time I noticed fizzies it was with my #124, which had the fizzies at that time. I subsequently went to work on it and changed/simplified a number of things in the amp, but didn't check it out at the time.
So I checked it out last weekend on the EV12L again, and, voila, no fizzies! EV12L does NOT have its own fizzies, but it sure does reveal them in an amp, and it IS very "beamy".
Instead of changing it out with a Fane Studio 12L I just got, I ordered a second Boogafunk TL806 cabinet for the Fane because I like the Booga cabinet so much. I have two 4 ohm-only D's, a '70s ODS and a Bluesmaster, so I can use those with both cabs in parallel and match the amps' impedance.
