NOS output tubes are not important to a great sound with most amps. You just need piles of tubes to match with any amp. Some of us a tube collectors. I do that too, but only so I have more choices.
I know some designs are more picky, and certain tubes meet a specific criteria (softening a hard amp, stiffening up a loose one.. hashy, or too gritty, ect) but I'm not over the edge on it.. I mean, I'd never retube a work amp with glass that costs more than an amp... I'd rather buy another amp!
I liken audiophillia to.. umm.. obsessive/compulsive.. or magic energy bracelets.
Beat me to a pulp! I will be back soon.. I need a first-aid kit.
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
I agree 100% if the amp cost more to tube then to replace it's really got to be amazing for me to drop that much $$ into it. I kind of feel the same way about ATA cases.
For the most part NOS tubes are not a requirement but in a few rare cases they make the amp.
Trainwreck (insert model) - Siemens / Ei
Marshall JTM45 bluesbreaker - Mullard
Fender 3x10 Bassman - RCA
Fender Tweed Champ - RCA
Sundown SD1000h /SD1012c (first time i've heard it with NOS was this weekend. It's night and day - GE / Tungsram
Marshall Major - Gold Lion
Orange Graphic - Brimar
I'm also a huge fan of the Original =C= winged c's and the new production c's aren't bad.
Tung-Sol are very smooth well balanced output tubes.
Mullard, what can you say other then.. yep.. same with Telefunken and RCA. As well as Amprex Bugle boy and Brimar all of them were a gold era in tone.
Since no two tubes are 100% the same it's true if you go through enough tubes you should be able to voice with any tube, But it all comes down to consistancy, that's why certain brands have become known for the "sound" they offer. The rest is just marketing hype and pier pressure.
With some amps, rectifier tubes also make a huge difference: JTM 45s, Bluesbreakers, most tweed Fenders (and a few blackfaces). If you compare the sound of current Sovtek, JJ or Chinese GZ34s with NOS Mullards (especially the ones Mullard made for Telefunken), your jaw will drop open. One Grammy-winning engineer/mixer I know described the difference as "like watching the Wizard of Oz when it changes from black and white to color."
selloutrr wrote:most of the new rectifier tubes are not true to vintage spec. they just silk screen a close/ marketable model # and call it good.
Some of the new rectifiers aren't even made with the same construction type at all.
There are Russian made tubes marked "5Y3" that have indirectly heated cathodes.
This greatly effects the voltage drop (sag) across the rectifier and drastically alters the sound.
The notorious Soviet 5Y3's aside, I have a hard time buying the rectifier tube argument.
I've got a couple NOS Mullard & GE GZ34's and some new JJ's. They typically read within one volt of each other, regardless of the current across them or the voltage hitting them.
Just doesn't seem plausible that they would make an amp sound that different when the one characteristic that affects their performance in an amp is identical. But some folks say the same thing about coupling caps, so...
Life is a tale told by an idiot -- full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
I buy NOS tubes when I can find them at reasonable prices.
Period correctness is one reason.
Tubes that can handle high voltages is another, like in my MusicMan amps where Sylvania STRs work best.
I've got a small stash of NOS 6V6s that I like for small Fenders.
But then there's that old supply and demand thing that has driven the prices way up on certain tubes especially from some sellers.
I try not to get pulled into that game.
Alexo wrote:The notorious Soviet 5Y3's aside, I have a hard time buying the rectifier tube argument.
I didn't believe it either until I A/B'ed a dozen tubes in the same amp. They all tested the same -- although it is apparently impossible to test a rectifer tube "at the full value of emission" (RCA, RC-30) -- and they all produced essentially the same B+ at idle, but when the amp was driven, the difference was pronounced.
what voltage are we talking to achive "at the full value of emission"?
They can test the same but sag or stiffen completely different. Same as any other tube. You'd have to test it at operating voltages and do a curve trace to see a visual difference. I'll try to get time tonight and put a few NOS and Current Production on the Amplitrex and post the results.
Hopefully at least one pair match for comparison.
selloutrr wrote:what voltage are we talking to achive "at the full value of emission"?
Who knows? Could be 600 volts per plate. The "full value of emission" probably means the saturation current, which RCA says you should not try to measure because it will A) change the characteristics of the tube under test and B) might break it. There must be something discernable under actual operating conditions.
The way I figured it, if tube A has equal voltage drop to tube B at 425 volts into a pair of 6L6's drawing X current, and the voltage drop is equal again at 350 volts into a pair of 6V6's, drawing whatever current they're drawing, you have two points on the curve for each tube, and if those two points match, odds are the rest of the curves will match.
However, it does seem plausible that they could behave the same way in the middle of their curves, but differently at the extremes, which is where things get interesting, so yeah, maybe you guys aren't completely crazy.
Life is a tale told by an idiot -- full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
selloutrr wrote:most of the new rectifier tubes are not true to vintage spec. they just silk screen a close/ marketable model # and call it good.
Some of the new rectifiers aren't even made with the same construction type at all.
There are Russian made tubes marked "5Y3" that have indirectly heated cathodes.
This greatly effects the voltage drop (sag) across the rectifier and drastically alters the sound.
rd
So are what are the old RCA rectifiers like,good as the Russian made?I have a few
I don't know why it is, but I can hear the difference between a Telefuken-branded Mullard and a Mullard-branded Mullard, even though both came from Blackburn. I can hear the difference between a Mullard and a US-made GE. And between a Mullard and a NOS Japanese 5AR4 (a very fine tube in its own right). It must be something that can be quantified and measured: how does the tube respond to different loads? How much does the voltage drop at varying currents?
It's quite possible that there are current-manufacture tubes that can perform equally, if we knew what to test for.
