Which build first

[mad_dog]

Hi All

I have been lurking for a little while trying to soak up as much info as possible before posting as some of you guys out there are pretty smart.

Anyway I am convinced that I need to build myself a D style amp, just I can't figure out or decide which one would best suit.

I play mostly bluesy rock primarily through a strat (but looking at a new 335) and these days barely get out of the basement, except to jam with friends in there basements.

#124 - I keep looking at this and something keeps saying build me, but I have no need for 100w every, and it looks a little more complicated

#40 (or 70's style) - looks a little simpler and is more in the wattage I'd be looking at but something just keeps pushing me away from it

D'lite - this probably looks the best option but there are so many different versions of this I keep getting lost. Also I have been scared off in a big way from ordering anything from Brown Note after reading horror stories on wait time.

I have about a million questions but hopefully some one might give me a little direction before I go asking something too stupid

[wjdunham]

I'm sure you'll get a lot of replies here, and probably no two the same. The answer depends somewhat on whether you've built amps before, assuming so, then I'd start with the #124. It's well documented, sounds great, and is relatively straightforward to build and tweak. The 70's amp is a lot trickier to get dialed in, and in my experience is a little more of a one trick pony.

If you build the #124 as documented including all the layouts and lead dressing, you'll have something that sounds very good out of the box. The mistake I made (and it seems like a lot of others) is not following the actual thing close enough (power supply caps, voltages etc...). Every suggestion I got from the helpful people on this forum turned out to take me back to the source. I'd build it as a 100W amp, and just put two tubes in there if you want 50W. There is a tonal difference that some day you may decide you want, and the extra cost isn't significant (bigger power and output trannies, maybe an extra $100).

I built a D'Lite as well, it's a wonderful kit but I had the wait-too-long experience and built the #124 while I was waiting or mine to come!

Good luck, almost any problem you encounter the people here will help you solve (worked for me

Bill

[Structo]

I can't think of a single guy here that has built a 100w ODS and was sorry they did, instead of a 50w.
The reverse is actually true.
I have not played a 100w ODS but by all accounts, you don't gain that much more volume (twice the power is only 3db increase), you gain tone.
The 100 watters apparently have better tone and feel with the four power tubes.
This is a case where more is more!

The downsize is more expensive since you have to buy a quad of power tubes and the transformers will be a bit more.

When I built my 50w I was very green and new to the ODS circuits.
So I built a D'lite.
Good experience there, but unless the shipping times have improved you may want to do a scratch build.
I have slowly brought this amp up as close as I can to the Dumble specs as I can.
The down side of building from scratch, especially if you don't have any spare parts laying around, is the shipping costs as you will have to order from more than one supplier.
The chassis can also be a bit hard to source.
There is the Natchakom guy that makes the blackface and silver face ODS chassis.
I think they are decent quality.
http://vasinguitaramp.tripod.com/id2.html

As mentioned, if you follow that #124 layout exactly, that is, layout, component values and lead dress it should be a very good sounding ODS.

[talbany]

I'll second everything both Bill and Tom told you.. If your new to building D-Style amps the 124 layout is dead on NUTS!!..Follow it to the letter grounding scheme wiring layout voltages etc..(Iknow took me forever to do it!!)If you do a search there is more than enough info (Pics build procedures etc..) buried here to get you through the build...
The extra power/ current X2 supplied by the extra tubes in the output section of 100w increases touch response and a girthy-ness (cork sniffer term) to the low mids that is a big part of the sonic signature Dumble amps are renowned...Componet values are also very important right down to the pot types and tapers.. After you get it built as close as possible to the origional and want to tweak it a bit come back here and ask for help!!.. Shit loads of talent hangin around Good Luck!!..and save some dough for a Dumbleator!!

Tony

[jhaas]

I've built a little over a dozen amps, but nothing in the Dumble family. I've also never built anything over 22 watts, and have been gigging lately with a 10Watt SE amp, happily overdriving the single EL34.

I never thought I'd build anything remotely close to 100 Watts, but after hearing the praises of #124 clones, I'm considering it.

So, my question is, would a 100W ODS be of any use to me, for overdriven tones, in a bar band atmosphere (moderate volumes)?

Would a D'Lite be better? - taking the kit issue out of the equation, because I'll be bending/drilling my chassis, and sourcing the parts myself, whichever route I take.

[Bob-I]

So, my question is, would a 100W ODS be of any use to me, for overdriven tones, in a bar band atmosphere (moderate volumes)?

Would a D'Lite be better? - taking the kit issue out of the equation, because I'll be bending/drilling my chassis, and sourcing the parts myself, whichever route I take.

I play in that environment almost every week. I like to play at reasonable stage levels and mike the amp so that the sound man can control the level in the house, plus I use in-ear monitors so I prefer to hear the guitar and everything in the monitors.

I find the 100 watter to be difficult to control. I use a Dumbletor in the loop mostly to help get the volume down, but still it just wants to be loud. The amp that works best for me is a 50 watt Dumble HRM built from an old Peavey VT. I run the masters at about 9:00 so the level is very low. I've actually had the sound man ask me to turn UP because he was getting too much bleed from the drums into the guitar amp mike.

[mad_dog]

I have built a few amps before but mostly just tweed + blackface fender style, so the switching in the dumble will be new.

I think you have all pretty much convinced me on the #124. I figured that it would be the most versatile and building something with more power it would be easier to bring the power down by running only 2 tubes.

I will have to refine my questions a little and see if I can't answer them myself first, I always think you learn more if you figure something out yourself rather than being told exactly what to do.

[bluesfendermanblues]

Year, but after building a #124, you're gonna want a

- High plate,
- HRM
- Bluesmaster
- and finally a 70's

[ER]

Doesn't #124 have a half power switch?

[talbany]

Year, but after building a #124, you're gonna want a

- High plate,
- HRM
- Bluesmaster
- and finally a 70's

:D

Absolutely!!..

Bottom right.. High Plate Music Man/ 70's 100w/ Bluesmaster/ 50w Music Man Non HRM/
Bottom left...Non HRM Low Plate KT 88/ Express/ HRM PCB 100..
Luv em ALL!!

Tony

[tubedogsmith]

For your needs, I'd go with a high plate, skyline 50 watt amp. There's not a bad sound anywhere in one of those. The easiest amps in the world to play and sound good through. IMO, the 100 watt, 124 style amp is a great amp for gigging with a big band but not all that friendly around the house unless you can really crank it all the time. It's not as complex sounding at low volumes and you need to have a loop box plugged in all the time.

[bluesfendermanblues]

Year, but after building a #124, you're gonna want a

- High plate,
- HRM
- Bluesmaster
- and finally a 70's

Absolutely!!..

Bottom right.. High Plate Music Man/ 70's 100w/ Bluesmaster/ 50w Music Man Non HRM/
Bottom left...Non HRM Low Plate KT 88/ Express/ HRM PCB 100..
Luv em ALL!!
Tony

Huh! what a nice collection, Tony

[jhaas]

For your needs, I'd go with a high plate, skyline 50 watt amp. There's not a bad sound anywhere in one of those. The easiest amps in the world to play and sound good through. IMO, the 100 watt, 124 style amp is a great amp for gigging with a big band but not all that friendly around the house unless you can really crank it all the time. It's not as complex sounding at low volumes and you need to have a loop box plugged in all the time.

Hey TubeDogSmith, was this directed at me? (the bar-band guy who fears 100W may be too much?) If so, thanks, I'll look into that.

@Bob-I, thanks for your frank response.

[mojotom]

124 is a nice start because it's very well documented, that's help me a lot, having both pix and layout on hands for this kind of build is a must as it's much more complicated to build than say a Plexi or a Deluxe.

My Express seems an easy build after building that 124, I completed the Express in a day a few years ago but spend a week to complete the Dumble.
This time I have to redrill most of the holes and made the boards too but after a Dumble build two things happened :

- Every other amp seems an easy build
- You'll just want to build every Dumble circuits available (and then you'll have to choose the next one... thanks Tony for answering all my PM !!)

124 is loud and needs to be played that way but it's so good even your neighbours will be nice with you.

[Structo]

Although my D'lite is only a two holer, I find the master volume on it very good.
Sure it doesn't sound like it's breathing fire when I turn it down but if you play with the pre volume and master you can get very respectable tones at low volume.
Turn the prevolume up and control the overall volume with the master and you can get heavily overdriven tone.
Or put the prevolume at 10-12 o'clock and the master lower and it has more clean headroom that way.
Simply the most versatile amp I have played.

I can see a 100w Marshall as a beast without the MV because you have to turn those up to get the tone, but on these D amps, the master volume works so good I often times play it at low bedroom levels.