how do you choose a CNC machine?
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how do you choose a CNC machine?
I keep hearing about CNC machines but I don't know enough about them to know where to start. I would guess a bed big enough for a 4x8 sheet would be a good start. do they come with computer and software? it would be really handy for speaker holes and cabinets. any brands that are better then another? if so why? can the same machine do metal and wood?
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
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skyboltone
- Posts: 2287
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Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
Even surplus this stuff is expensive. Try http://www.exfactory.com/
My guess is that CaseyJones is the best source of info on here about such things.
My guess is that CaseyJones is the best source of info on here about such things.
The Last of the World's Great Human Beings
Seek immediate medical attention if you suddenly go either deaf or blind.
If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years time there would be a shortage of sand.
Seek immediate medical attention if you suddenly go either deaf or blind.
If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years time there would be a shortage of sand.
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
Casey is most probably in Sherbrooke as we speak... 
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CaseyJones
- Posts: 856
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:29 pm
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
I went in another direction. After seein' that turkey wif titties I ended up in Lancaster County, PA. It's a great location fer turkey, tits and rustic Americana. Nice Amish gurls... 
CNC... translation: "Bring money"! 4x8? You talkin' a CNC router to handle sheet goods? Good thing our boy SellOut has a toys budget, the last one we had on our dock in shrinkwrap cost $250k. A CNC router is a big expenditure to build a couple cabinets. Big machine, big money. The rest of us do it with more or less normal woodworking tools, they're expensive enough. There goes yer street cred...
CNC anything is a large, expensive and complicated machine. For starters most of what you'll find will be three phase, that's not too bad... either buy a honkin' big convertor or take a deep breath and have the electric company drop three phase into yer garage. Good luck on that one, Bucko... once they drop three phase you're industrial as far as they're concerned. Get ready for a big ol' electric bill each month whether you use your toys or not.
Don't let your local zoning officer see you rigging your new toy. That's a difficult trick, the best way to move this stuff is with a forklift and a lowboy. If they think you're industrial in a residential zone you're screwed.
CNC requires outboard gear like dust/chip collection. I guarantee that by the time you've shoehorned any machine that will hande sheet goods into your garage... there won't be any room left over for you. You'll be livin' in a porta-potty somewhere in Oklahoma when yer neighbors get done bitchin' about the 25 horse dust collector bolted to the back of yer garage...
Backing up a bit: In general CNC machinery is so damn expensive that you'll want to run it three shifts per day to amortise the cost. It might sound like fun but a good ol' "run of the mill" (pun intended!) Bridgeport with a locater is preferable for the type of one-off work amp builders do. For general machining I prefer a nice Bridgeport or a Bridgeport clone, instead of sitting down and generating a CAD program I can just walk over to the Bridgeport, find myself a zero and start carvin'. Cuts out the middle man, it does.
Support yer local machine shop! These guys are friggin' STARVING right now, they'll do a little dance if you walk into their shops wif work. Forget DIY for a minute, these guys will do it right for less than you can do it yourself.
Nice Amish gurls... CNC... translation: "Bring money"! 4x8? You talkin' a CNC router to handle sheet goods? Good thing our boy SellOut has a toys budget, the last one we had on our dock in shrinkwrap cost $250k. A CNC router is a big expenditure to build a couple cabinets. Big machine, big money. The rest of us do it with more or less normal woodworking tools, they're expensive enough. There goes yer street cred...
CNC anything is a large, expensive and complicated machine. For starters most of what you'll find will be three phase, that's not too bad... either buy a honkin' big convertor or take a deep breath and have the electric company drop three phase into yer garage. Good luck on that one, Bucko... once they drop three phase you're industrial as far as they're concerned. Get ready for a big ol' electric bill each month whether you use your toys or not.
Don't let your local zoning officer see you rigging your new toy. That's a difficult trick, the best way to move this stuff is with a forklift and a lowboy. If they think you're industrial in a residential zone you're screwed.
CNC requires outboard gear like dust/chip collection. I guarantee that by the time you've shoehorned any machine that will hande sheet goods into your garage... there won't be any room left over for you. You'll be livin' in a porta-potty somewhere in Oklahoma when yer neighbors get done bitchin' about the 25 horse dust collector bolted to the back of yer garage...
Backing up a bit: In general CNC machinery is so damn expensive that you'll want to run it three shifts per day to amortise the cost. It might sound like fun but a good ol' "run of the mill" (pun intended!) Bridgeport with a locater is preferable for the type of one-off work amp builders do. For general machining I prefer a nice Bridgeport or a Bridgeport clone, instead of sitting down and generating a CAD program I can just walk over to the Bridgeport, find myself a zero and start carvin'. Cuts out the middle man, it does.
Support yer local machine shop! These guys are friggin' STARVING right now, they'll do a little dance if you walk into their shops wif work. Forget DIY for a minute, these guys will do it right for less than you can do it yourself.
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
Casey, I just gotta say...whether it's a politcal rant or straight talk on the realities of owning a CNC, I sure have learned a lot from you...<i>and</i> I get to laugh my ass off in the process
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
Casey
Have you seen the Craftsman 3D computer powered carving machine?
I don't know if it was just the local Sears guys that did know how to operate this machine or low quality of the machine operation. But it did not carve that well on the demo I saw. Price tag$1899.
Mark
Have you seen the Craftsman 3D computer powered carving machine?
I don't know if it was just the local Sears guys that did know how to operate this machine or low quality of the machine operation. But it did not carve that well on the demo I saw. Price tag$1899.
Mark
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
As a lifelong machinist, I can back up CJ quite well.
No need to embellish...
Except to fortify the fact a good Series 2 Bridgeport is the way to go.
Normally equipped with a three phase, it can be retrofitted to a two phase.
But it lacks HP to drive anything much larger than a 1/2" four flute endmill in a 1/4" depth of cut. Stock...it can handle a 3/4" full depth without even sneezing in mild steel. Best thing is the dial-up variable spindle speed.
Thrown on a DRO (digital readout), and a little handle servo, and you're in it for around 5-7K.
A Series 1 is ok, but as long as you're at it...why not get the Series 2?
No messy belt-looping to mess with. And a much beefier knee assembly for reduced chatter.
Seriously though...
I picked up an Enco millning machine, not much more than a mill-drill, for the price of scrap, and it's just fine for cutting chassis holes and slots.
I use a 3/4 hp single phase on the 15 amp regular service.
It gets noisy, but it works, and is dirt cheap.
Poppa taught me how to make anything out of nothing.
It separates a machinist from a machine operator.
No need to embellish...
Except to fortify the fact a good Series 2 Bridgeport is the way to go.
Normally equipped with a three phase, it can be retrofitted to a two phase.
But it lacks HP to drive anything much larger than a 1/2" four flute endmill in a 1/4" depth of cut. Stock...it can handle a 3/4" full depth without even sneezing in mild steel. Best thing is the dial-up variable spindle speed.
Thrown on a DRO (digital readout), and a little handle servo, and you're in it for around 5-7K.
A Series 1 is ok, but as long as you're at it...why not get the Series 2?
No messy belt-looping to mess with. And a much beefier knee assembly for reduced chatter.
Seriously though...
I picked up an Enco millning machine, not much more than a mill-drill, for the price of scrap, and it's just fine for cutting chassis holes and slots.
I use a 3/4 hp single phase on the 15 amp regular service.
It gets noisy, but it works, and is dirt cheap.
Poppa taught me how to make anything out of nothing.
It separates a machinist from a machine operator.
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
MachinistsCygnus X1 wrote: ... Poppa taught me how to make anything out of nothing...
Now you guys are real craftsman/artists 
I always wanted to be a machinist I wanna be able to "make anything out of nothing" Take some sheet stock, some rod stock, some bar stock and wind up with a locomotive 
Tim
In case the NSA is listening, KMA!
In case the NSA is listening, KMA!
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
To all the machinists <kneels down>: "We are not worthy, we are not worthy!"
I, too, have a warm spot in my heart in appreciation of great machinists. If anyone knows of Elias Eleftheriades, please let me know where to find him. I worked with him in the Bay Area about 20 years ago and he had, in his career(s) made everything from propeller shafts for ships (not boats) to prototype pressure-sensing switches for some of the first decompression computers for divers. An Olympic-class free pistol shooter, he taught me how to shoot and was the one that motivated me to return to college.
CNC? It's not the CNC that makes a quality part - it's the person driving it.
I, too, have a warm spot in my heart in appreciation of great machinists. If anyone knows of Elias Eleftheriades, please let me know where to find him. I worked with him in the Bay Area about 20 years ago and he had, in his career(s) made everything from propeller shafts for ships (not boats) to prototype pressure-sensing switches for some of the first decompression computers for divers. An Olympic-class free pistol shooter, he taught me how to shoot and was the one that motivated me to return to college.
CNC? It's not the CNC that makes a quality part - it's the person driving it.
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
There is a guy over at the ReRanch forum where I am a member.
He has a cabinet shop and has a big CNC machine. I believe he said it cost in excess of $20K.
He is able to program it and has programmed routing for strats, teles and his latest is a Gibson Firebird. It is an amazing machine but I think getting the programming right is the most difficult part as he tells it.
Another expense is of course the router bits and they must be very sharp to make clean cuts.
I don't know anything else about it but he has posted pictures of it in action. You really can't see much because of the dust screens that surround the work.
He did say that without the cabinet business he probably couldn't justify the price of the CNC.
And I don't know if this same machine is capable of doing a chassis layout as far as the holes go on a chassis. Surely you wouldn't make one out of billet aluminum.
He has a cabinet shop and has a big CNC machine. I believe he said it cost in excess of $20K.
He is able to program it and has programmed routing for strats, teles and his latest is a Gibson Firebird. It is an amazing machine but I think getting the programming right is the most difficult part as he tells it.
Another expense is of course the router bits and they must be very sharp to make clean cuts.
I don't know anything else about it but he has posted pictures of it in action. You really can't see much because of the dust screens that surround the work.
He did say that without the cabinet business he probably couldn't justify the price of the CNC.
And I don't know if this same machine is capable of doing a chassis layout as far as the holes go on a chassis. Surely you wouldn't make one out of billet aluminum.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
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CaseyJones
- Posts: 856
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:29 pm
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
All "CNC" means is that there's computer control using a servo/encoder setup to locate the tool. It was done not so long ago via perforated tape, not too far removed from old punchcard computers.
The computer (which may be an obsolete 386 or 486, anything simple, rugged and reliable) can control various tooling. Water jet is one of my faves, who'da thunk water could cut hardened steel? Of course there's a trick to it...
Anyway, for sheet goods water jet and laser are popular tools. You wouldn't want to cut wood with a water jet but of course a laser does a smashing job. Laser works on just about anything.
If you wanted to cut stone or glass a water jet will do it.
Tooling can be set up to cut various materials, obviously you can mill wood and metal. A wood mill is an different setup than a mill that machines metal. A specialized mill can be used to cut tombstones or granite board room table tops. Cool the cutter with a stream of water, the water also removes waste... set your feeds 'n' speed right and chew away!
$20k seems dirt cheap for a CNC wood router.
The computer (which may be an obsolete 386 or 486, anything simple, rugged and reliable) can control various tooling. Water jet is one of my faves, who'da thunk water could cut hardened steel? Of course there's a trick to it...
Anyway, for sheet goods water jet and laser are popular tools. You wouldn't want to cut wood with a water jet but of course a laser does a smashing job. Laser works on just about anything.
If you wanted to cut stone or glass a water jet will do it.
Tooling can be set up to cut various materials, obviously you can mill wood and metal. A wood mill is an different setup than a mill that machines metal. A specialized mill can be used to cut tombstones or granite board room table tops. Cool the cutter with a stream of water, the water also removes waste... set your feeds 'n' speed right and chew away!
$20k seems dirt cheap for a CNC wood router.
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
well lucky for me I'm zoned county residential/comercial on 3.5 acres on imperial power and the property came prewired with dual 200amp 3 phase power in both RV / Shops. One is dedicated to the studio running a solid state logic 4072G+ the other is just aching to power some heavy tools!. not a cheap electrical bill, but I off set some of the cost threw solar for the house, pool, and spa. I'm not in the least bit concerned about neighbors or the noise. If it bothers me, i'll build a room for the compressor float the floor and run the lines back in the shop with remote on/off and pressure metering.
I'll be back in the states on the 18th - 4th of the new year. I'll do some research and make some calls while i'm out and see what I can get rolling when I return. thanks for all your input!
I'll be back in the states on the 18th - 4th of the new year. I'll do some research and make some calls while i'm out and see what I can get rolling when I return. thanks for all your input!
My Daughter Build Stone Henge
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
I detect a bit of sarcasm around here...
My Dad is a certified Master Machinist, Tool and Die maker, and retired as a mold shop foreman. I know he would take exception to the sarcasm. I'm just a youngster at 45, with much to learn!
Anyhow.
There are some home built CNC setups using conventional vertical mills, cheap servos, and whatever PC is handy. Still well over 10K to get it together. And HP elevates the prices considerably.
My Dad is a certified Master Machinist, Tool and Die maker, and retired as a mold shop foreman. I know he would take exception to the sarcasm. I'm just a youngster at 45, with much to learn!
Anyhow.
There are some home built CNC setups using conventional vertical mills, cheap servos, and whatever PC is handy. Still well over 10K to get it together. And HP elevates the prices considerably.
Re: how do you choose a CNC machine?
Hoffman has a webpage about his home-built CNC adventures:
http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Cnc/CNC0.htm
http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Cnc/CNC0.htm