My shop burned down

[Phil_S]

I'm with lots of others here on 3rd party adjusters. Not a bad thing, but don't use that guy who knocked on your door. See if you can surface a referral by asking around for someone. Of course, your insurance company is familiar with this practice and doesn't want to see you go that route. Just the mention of it might soften them up enough to cover you properly.

The best thing you can do on your own is to make an inventory of the equipment lost and assign reasonable replacement values to it. As I said before, make sure you get every last thing lost onto that list, no matter how trivial.

Next, find a reliable construction contractor and get a good itemized estimate of what it will take to rebuild to what you had.

Read your policy carefully. See what is allowed (what you purchased) in a claim. Be sure you understand. If you bought replacement value, you're in good shape. Otherwise, they will use depreciated value, which will be tough to stomach.

Depreciation has 4 components: cost, useful life, residual value, and method. If you are getting stuck for depreciation, anything beyond its economic useful life (different from real life) will yield only residual value in the claim. So, there you argue about residual value.

See what you are offered. Show them what you think the claim is worth. If they roll over, you're done. If not then consider the alternatives. Whatever you do, make sure you do your homework!

Good luck.

[roadkingbluzs]

Good news, you, family and pets are safe. Bad news your wonderful shop, a shop most of us dream of, gone. Wish you all the best and as others have mentioned, make sure all is covered. Bob

[David Root]

Sorry to hear about your loss, and folks' advice about insurance companies and independent adjusters, especially that ambulance chaser, is on the money.

Do you know what caused the fire yet?

[TNblueshawk]

Do not go with that guy who knocked on your door. The good ones don't need to sniff out business. It comes to them, more or less.

I'd give everything I have into the HO policy first. See what pans out. I don't know your coverage but you might be good and no need to sweat it out. Whether you do or don't, do not tell Snake Farm or Allsnake or whoever you have that you have this adjuster. This will immediately put them on the defensive. Trust me. It doesn't help when you say I have a "lawyer" or something similar. I've worked for insurance companies from 1988-2008. When I heard that it was time to buckle up as it was on. Until I heard that I just did my thing. But, I was ethical. My experience was work comp (still is for a private company) however I worked with property guys for 20 years.

Like any profession, you've got your dick heads, your greenies who don't know anything, cool adjusters at the ins company who are not trying to screw you over and then everything in between.

One thing, find out what the Statute of Limitations is and do not let that pass. Spray paint it on a wall somewhere.

Document all conversation with time, date and who you talked to no matter how innocuous it might seem at the time.

Good luck Mike. Take deeeeeep breaths as you roll along

[passfan]

Sorry for your loss Mike. Fire scares me as well as I have a big garage shop like you. I also build guitars and store lacquers and such. I do have big sealed cabinets for those but they wont stop a fire. Good luck putting it back and be reminded of all the new shop tools you'll have.

[amplifiednation]

Mike so sorry to hear this news! At least the tools are replaceable and no one got hurt, it wasn't your guitars, amps, etc... I bet some of the stuff will be fun to buy again. Good luck brother

[ampmike]

Yea <Today Im meeting with the ins co.Hopefully after today we can get in there to take inventory and begin to get the contractor in there,I will replace all my tools,I have to go to a hotel tonight its just real bad with all the soot and smells.At least for the night,But yea.It will be cool getting my new machines,Thanks,More coffee,mikey

[amplifiednation]

Speaking of insurance...does anyone hold a policy on their guitars? Instruments over $1000 aren't usually covered unless itemized on home owners

[Leo_Gnardo]

Speaking of insurance...does anyone hold a policy on their guitars? Instruments over $1000 aren't usually covered unless itemized on home owners

Good point, and here's another headache: how does one evaluate custom made guitars, amps, fx, etc. for insurance? So-called "professional" instrument assessors charge 10% of the assessed value. (So they have a reason to assign high values, no?) And it's darn near impossible to set a value on intruments that have a "thin market" whether custom made or factory. For instance, I have a rare Bec Var bass. Could be worth $200 or $75,000, who knows? There aren't many Bec Var's out there, especially fretless.

One could go broke fast, paying for that kind of assessment service, plus insurance "riders" for valuable music property, typically 5% of the assessed value, per year. (That's the figure I was quoted - I asked my agent.) This morning NPR just had an article on a rarely-heard Stradivarius violin, valued at $14,000,000. Who pays insurance on that? Pass the aspirin bottle...

[TNblueshawk]

Speaking of insurance...does anyone hold a policy on their guitars? Instruments over $1000 aren't usually covered unless itemized on home owners

Funny you ask this. Two weeks ago I had added an umbrella policy to my Home Owners and I asked about this and I guess it is called a personal itmes or articles endorsement. Apparently it is up to me to just come up with a number of what I value it at as I told her I've build most of my stuff. For guitars and amps I really don't have too much but I told her I've built 70 pedals I currently have. She then told me that I have to value each one and describe it But again, I just come up with the value.

I just haven't been able to bring myself to do all this yet. I don't know the added cost to the policy since I have not done this. But, these items are NOT covered apparently under my HO policy as it stands now. I really should get off my duff and at least do it for my guitars/amps.

[Phil_S]

The rider for personal items can vary from company to company as to how it works and whether you need it. If you play out at all, with instruments leaving your house, you should carry the rider. When the instrument is in your home, it is probably covered along with all your other personal items like furniture. If your insurance agent is worth his salt, you should be able to get a good answer, which should start with, "I'll discuss it with the underwriter."

The first part of the puzzle is getting the right coverage. The second part is when you need to make a claim, will they pay off? The latter is problematic as insurance companies will generally pay replacement value. It is a problem because the insurance company's idea of replacement value is often at odds with our idea of replacement value. An ordinary insurance company will not readily recognize the difference between an original Deluxe amp and a reissue and they will try to stick you with a reissue. The same for that '59 Les Paul and the '59 reissue. For this reason, it is very important to have the rider written very specifically and then the underwriter is going to up the premium.

There is at least one company that specializes in insuring musical instruments (I forget the name). If you have something special, like that '59 LP or a Broadcaster, or whatever, it is much better to deal with a specialty insurer that is prepared to properly value and insure the item. This way, you'll actually have the coverage you think you have. There is every chance your ordinary insurer and you will have a difference in perception on the nature of the coverage, and you can be sure you'll be on the short end of the stick for a claim.

For hand built instruments that are one of a kind, you are into a whole other thing. Since there is no comparable market, an appraisal is probably needed and your best bet is to cover it through a specialty insurer.

Getting the right coverage will cost you more. You'll have to decide if it is worth getting.

Me? I've got a Guild Starfire IV, a Korean PRS Soapbar II, and a Gibson Gospel acoustic. I don't take a rider because these instruments never leave the house. If they should leave for a short time, I'll take my chances. In any case, establishing market value shouldn't be a problem. Others will have far more complicated insurance considerations.

I figure my hand built collection of amps is essentially worthless if I have a fire ;-( Maybe I'd get paid for the value of the parts if I'm lucky. These are in the same league, maybe worse, than a one of a kind instrument. When they find out your are fooling around with dangerous appliances, they will want to up your fire insurance and maybe something else. I figure, if you need to get into this area, be very careful about what you say.

[TNblueshawk]

When they find out your are fooling around with dangerous appliances, they will want to up your fire insurance and maybe something else. I figure, if you need to get into this area, be very careful about what you say.

I'll tell them the amps work off 9v. They won't know otherwise

But seriously, great advice. I can't speak for Mike but I thank you.

[overtone]

When they find out your are fooling around with dangerous appliances, they will want to up your fire insurance and maybe something else. I figure, if you need to get into this area, be very careful about what you say.

I'll tell them the amps work off 9v. They won't know otherwise

But seriously, great advice. I can't speak for Mike but I thank you.

Just recently I learnt that quite a few household fires have been started by old 9 Volt batteries as an ignition source. Never knew that.

Re. Insurance: I have a specialist musical insurance from the USA with Andersons for my instruments. Above 5k you have to get the instrument professionally valued, below that you document and value yourself. Luckily I have never had to put it to use. I have found them really good to work with, more of a tailored personal service than the outfits over here.

tony

[Leo_Gnardo]

Just recently I learnt that quite a few household fires have been started by old 9 Volt batteries as an ignition source. Never knew that.

Had an interesting jaw-wag with one of the experts at D'Andrea @ 10 years ago. I was inquiring about the camphor-like odor of newly made celluloid picks. He mentioned guitar picks - some made with nitrocellulose or related compounds - as a potential fire hazard. Recommended to store your old pick collections in a metal box. How many fires get started this way . . . ? ? ? Who knows? Seems hardly anything's safe. FWIW I have nearly lit my pants on fire by carrying a 9V battery in a pocket & that's no lie. They get mighty hot when shorted out by coins.

[ampmike]

Little update,The battery charger radio may have started the fire,S the radio co has been served notice and the fire site is taped off.No work can be done until they come out and check the site.They will take the charger radio to test if it did indeed start the fire.I have to go to live in a hotel at this point it pretty bad with the smoke and soot.So it looks like ill be able to get new tools.I appreciate all your input guys.You have all been really helpful.It pretty gloomy right now but a few months from now things will be looking up.
My daughter is getting married in July and is counting on me to make a lot of wooden stuff for her wedding.My list of loss is going to be huge.I even had tubes and chassis out there.Talk to you all later,Mikey