I think Jana, that what you are saying here is that things are not so black and white are they? I agree.
I opposed this change and will continue to oppose it because I made choices in life that looked forward. I am retired and have one of those Cadillac plans they talk about. It's not my fault that the other guy didn't think about his future is it? My plan will end in three years though as I go into Medicare. What's next? I have no idea what the future holds for me but I do find it interesting that younger folks for the most part think that I've lived long enough. Perhaps it would be best if I should simply die off; or as our fearless leader said, "(Tell your grandmother) to take a pill".
I believe that this election was far less about health care and far more about two wars started by the previous administration. Our people are tired of adventurism abroad; however well intentioned.
I already paid for my health care. I really don't want to pay for yours too. It's as simple as that. I guess I'm just a selfish pig.
Dan
Health Care
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
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skyboltone
- Posts: 2287
- Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 7:02 pm
- Location: Sparks, NV, where nowhere looks like home.
Re: Health Care
The Last of the World's Great Human Beings
Seek immediate medical attention if you suddenly go either deaf or blind.
If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years time there would be a shortage of sand.
Seek immediate medical attention if you suddenly go either deaf or blind.
If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years time there would be a shortage of sand.
Re: Health Care
mlp-mx6,
We HAVE to protect Canada--they make Moosehead beer!
skyboltone,
Yes, things are not black and white, although many would like us to believe that it is. That is part of the problem--we have become so polarized from the twisted rhetoric, sound bites, and fear mongering that it seems nothing can be accomplished anymore. We are better than that.
Look what we did in the 60s when JFK set a vision to get to the moon--we did it. I firmly believe that we could do similar projects today if we had the will and commitment to work together and find ways to do it instead of trying to find ways to score political points with special interest groups.
What if we, as a nation, made commitments to
provide everyone with a decent education
provide everyone with healthcare
make sure no one goes hungry
solve our energy needs (not just kick the can down the road)
honestly examine the environmental issues and do what it best for the people and not the special interests
What if we did that and honestly looked for ways to do it instead of looking for reasons why we can't do it?
I bet we could do it without succumbing to all the fear based scenarios that are floated--we will be forever in debt, china will own us, etc.
It's not about giving away free "stuff." It's about creating democracy 2.0.
For example, you want to be a doctor? Fine, your education is paid for and in turn you devote x number of years providing medical care for x group of underserved people--you get a stipend to live on but not much more. This could in turn be a way to help make medical care available at a more reasonable cost to the underserved.
It's not about creating a society of free stuff handouts. Unless, of course, it is Moosehead beer! Just kidding!
We HAVE to protect Canada--they make Moosehead beer!
skyboltone,
Yes, things are not black and white, although many would like us to believe that it is. That is part of the problem--we have become so polarized from the twisted rhetoric, sound bites, and fear mongering that it seems nothing can be accomplished anymore. We are better than that.
Look what we did in the 60s when JFK set a vision to get to the moon--we did it. I firmly believe that we could do similar projects today if we had the will and commitment to work together and find ways to do it instead of trying to find ways to score political points with special interest groups.
What if we, as a nation, made commitments to
provide everyone with a decent education
provide everyone with healthcare
make sure no one goes hungry
solve our energy needs (not just kick the can down the road)
honestly examine the environmental issues and do what it best for the people and not the special interests
What if we did that and honestly looked for ways to do it instead of looking for reasons why we can't do it?
I bet we could do it without succumbing to all the fear based scenarios that are floated--we will be forever in debt, china will own us, etc.
It's not about giving away free "stuff." It's about creating democracy 2.0.
For example, you want to be a doctor? Fine, your education is paid for and in turn you devote x number of years providing medical care for x group of underserved people--you get a stipend to live on but not much more. This could in turn be a way to help make medical care available at a more reasonable cost to the underserved.
It's not about creating a society of free stuff handouts. Unless, of course, it is Moosehead beer! Just kidding!
Re: Health Care
I don't disagree with you Jana, but when JFK decided to go to the Moon, we were relatively flush with cash. Today, on-budget and off-budget items considered, we are in hock by more money THAN EXISTS. It's like Dr. Evil forgetting what decade he's in when makes his extortion demands. Yikes.
Re: Health Care
I've ben following this thread with some interest, as I do find these matters interesting from an international POV. I'll also admit that I have not read up on the priciples of Obamacare, but I think I get the rough picture.
Some of you wonder what other countries do, - here's what our system looks like:
Every person with a taxable income over NOK 30,000 (appx 5500 USD) pays a 7.8% "health and social tax" ( for lack of a better translation ). 3% of this is the premuim for our public pension, and this part is dropped from taxation once you retire. The other 4.8 is health related.
The general idea is of course, that everybody pay their part, according to income.
All health care , dental unfortunately excluded, is essentially free. You do, however, pay a minmum fee for doctors consultation, typically 20-30$. The same also goes for hospital examinations, "blue" prescription medicines ( life preserving or serious illnesses), physio therapy, chiropracors and whatever have you. All this adds up to a max roofing sum af about 380$ these days, whereafter everything is free. All hospital care is free based on the same system. My wife had a cancer treatment and operation last and this year, - 5 weeks of chemo and later operations, lots of examinations, MRIs, CTs and so on for months.
In principle it did not cost us a dime, except for some hotel expenses, when I was acting as a phycological support during these trying weeks. Even some of this was paid for, as escorting person is also paid for if concidered necesseary. Some odd non life threatening problems may not be covered by the public system. There's equal rights, wether your income is 20-30,000$ or 2-300,000 ++++.
Our health care system is heavily tried though, these days, and for non life threatening diseases or problems, there may be some waiting for threatment, - worst case can be up to a year or so. These problems are heavily debated these days, as it is concidered a public shame, which of course it is. There are also private insurance systems that operate on the outside of the public one, where insurance will pay to speed up necesseary threatment, even abroad if necesseary. The company I work for has just recently signed an agreement with the insurance co. that holds our other company insurances. Any company, personal or limited, are obliged to have insurance policies that cover all empoyees towards death or work related accidents or long time damages. The policy I have even cover my personal life outside work, but not family members.
This is a rough sketch of how our medical system works.
EDIT: most of Europe has a similar system, I guess - with some differences, of course : END EDIT:
In my opinion, as a european, the US system is fouled by the bussiness like approach, - insurance companies, which by definition must make money, eats most of the money in the US system by sheer profit or insurance beauraucracy. I think I prefer our system.........
I could go on with our educational system, which is also free - equal rights for high and low.....
but then we are all freakin' socialists over here ....
which is of course a load of BS!
There is of course a very small political minority of real socialists over here, but then I'm told that is also the case in the US
Some of you wonder what other countries do, - here's what our system looks like:
Every person with a taxable income over NOK 30,000 (appx 5500 USD) pays a 7.8% "health and social tax" ( for lack of a better translation ). 3% of this is the premuim for our public pension, and this part is dropped from taxation once you retire. The other 4.8 is health related.
The general idea is of course, that everybody pay their part, according to income.
All health care , dental unfortunately excluded, is essentially free. You do, however, pay a minmum fee for doctors consultation, typically 20-30$. The same also goes for hospital examinations, "blue" prescription medicines ( life preserving or serious illnesses), physio therapy, chiropracors and whatever have you. All this adds up to a max roofing sum af about 380$ these days, whereafter everything is free. All hospital care is free based on the same system. My wife had a cancer treatment and operation last and this year, - 5 weeks of chemo and later operations, lots of examinations, MRIs, CTs and so on for months.
In principle it did not cost us a dime, except for some hotel expenses, when I was acting as a phycological support during these trying weeks. Even some of this was paid for, as escorting person is also paid for if concidered necesseary. Some odd non life threatening problems may not be covered by the public system. There's equal rights, wether your income is 20-30,000$ or 2-300,000 ++++.
Our health care system is heavily tried though, these days, and for non life threatening diseases or problems, there may be some waiting for threatment, - worst case can be up to a year or so. These problems are heavily debated these days, as it is concidered a public shame, which of course it is. There are also private insurance systems that operate on the outside of the public one, where insurance will pay to speed up necesseary threatment, even abroad if necesseary. The company I work for has just recently signed an agreement with the insurance co. that holds our other company insurances. Any company, personal or limited, are obliged to have insurance policies that cover all empoyees towards death or work related accidents or long time damages. The policy I have even cover my personal life outside work, but not family members.
This is a rough sketch of how our medical system works.
EDIT: most of Europe has a similar system, I guess - with some differences, of course : END EDIT:
In my opinion, as a european, the US system is fouled by the bussiness like approach, - insurance companies, which by definition must make money, eats most of the money in the US system by sheer profit or insurance beauraucracy. I think I prefer our system.........
I could go on with our educational system, which is also free - equal rights for high and low.....
but then we are all freakin' socialists over here ....
which is of course a load of BS!There is of course a very small political minority of real socialists over here, but then I'm told that is also the case in the US
Re: Health Care
If I'm not mistaken Norway has one of if not the highest standard of living too.
Re: Health Care
So our politicians keep telling us, and media too, but that is not to say we are without our own problems, though......
Norway is a small country, by population, we just recently passed 5 millions...... our luck is of course the oil industry, from which our politicians so wisely decided that this should be to the benefit of people and country, and not only to international corporations....... a job well done!
They still manage to screw up a good measure of other things, though...
Norway is a small country, by population, we just recently passed 5 millions...... our luck is of course the oil industry, from which our politicians so wisely decided that this should be to the benefit of people and country, and not only to international corporations....... a job well done!
They still manage to screw up a good measure of other things, though...
Re: Health Care
Firestorm,
Good point about the cash differences between now and then. That, then, would be one more item to solve on the "to-do" list--how did we get into this mess and what do we do to get out of it? While not the entire reason, a decade of war must have had something to do with it. When we refer to military expenditures, it is called "defense spending." I would like to know, how much of it is really for defense and how much is for offense. Do we really need the ability to invade and occupy countries on multiple fronts? Even without nukes, we have the ability to reach out and touch someone in a very serious way--what do we gain, from a defensive standpoint, to have the ability to occupy a country for a decade or more? Serious questions with no snark intended.
Good point about the cash differences between now and then. That, then, would be one more item to solve on the "to-do" list--how did we get into this mess and what do we do to get out of it? While not the entire reason, a decade of war must have had something to do with it. When we refer to military expenditures, it is called "defense spending." I would like to know, how much of it is really for defense and how much is for offense. Do we really need the ability to invade and occupy countries on multiple fronts? Even without nukes, we have the ability to reach out and touch someone in a very serious way--what do we gain, from a defensive standpoint, to have the ability to occupy a country for a decade or more? Serious questions with no snark intended.
Re: Health Care
Aurora wrote, "They still manage to screw up a good measure of other things, though... "
Yup, like taking cod fish and making lutefisk out of it! My grandmother used to make that stuff and oh my, the terror on the faces of us kids when it was lutefisk day. I suppose it is one of those foods that you either love it or hate it. lol.
Yup, like taking cod fish and making lutefisk out of it! My grandmother used to make that stuff and oh my, the terror on the faces of us kids when it was lutefisk day. I suppose it is one of those foods that you either love it or hate it. lol.
Re: Health Care
Oh - that has more to do with what you manage to get used to....
I truly hated it as a kid, but nowadays I find it quite delicious when properly done. That's a dish which is quite easy to really screw up....
Ever heard about "smalahove"? From the south western part of Norway....
grilled sheeps head..........
I truly hated it as a kid, but nowadays I find it quite delicious when properly done. That's a dish which is quite easy to really screw up....
Ever heard about "smalahove"? From the south western part of Norway....
grilled sheeps head..........
Re: Health Care
I don't recall grandma making smalahove. She used to make some really good bread--it was so fine in texture it would just about melt in the mouth. Absolutely delicious!
Re: Health Care
Norway is running deficits too.
http://www.datosmacro.com/en/deficit/norway
Their debt is over half of their GDP too.
http://www.indexmundi.com/norway/public_debt.html
http://www.datosmacro.com/en/deficit/norway
Their debt is over half of their GDP too.
http://www.indexmundi.com/norway/public_debt.html
Wife: How many amps do you need?
Me: Just one more...
Me: Just one more...
Re: Health Care
Defense spending may be costly, but it goes to fund core industries in old "military industrial complex." Those corporations make money, which they pay, in part to stockholders, and invent cool stuff we all like when it filters down to the consumer level. It's not without abuses, but the money isn't totally being pissed away.Jana wrote:Firestorm,
Good point about the cash differences between now and then. That, then, would be one more item to solve on the "to-do" list--how did we get into this mess and what do we do to get out of it? While not the entire reason, a decade of war must have had something to do with it. When we refer to military expenditures, it is called "defense spending." I would like to know, how much of it is really for defense and how much is for offense. Do we really need the ability to invade and occupy countries on multiple fronts? Even without nukes, we have the ability to reach out and touch someone in a very serious way--what do we gain, from a defensive standpoint, to have the ability to occupy a country for a decade or more? Serious questions with no snark intended.
Re: Health Care
That is only partially correct - Norway does have a national debt around 60% of GDP, - part of the international money game,mlp-mx6 wrote:Norway is running deficits too.
http://www.datosmacro.com/en/deficit/norway
Their debt is over half of their GDP too.
http://www.indexmundi.com/norway/public_debt.html
but also have stashed away over 200% of GDP in international banking funds......... by the end of 2012 this will probably be somewhere around 250% of GDP
Re: Health Care
You have a lot of faith in international banking funds...Aurora wrote:That is only partially correct - Norway does have a national debt around 60% of GDP, - part of the international money game,mlp-mx6 wrote:Norway is running deficits too.
http://www.datosmacro.com/en/deficit/norway
Their debt is over half of their GDP too.
http://www.indexmundi.com/norway/public_debt.html
but also have stashed away over 200% of GDP in international banking funds......... by the end of 2012 this will probably be somewhere around 250% of GDP
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LeftyStrat
- Posts: 3117
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:58 pm
- Location: Marietta, SC, but my heart and two of my kids are in Seattle, WA
Re: Health Care
I live in the Ballard area of Seattle, which was originally a separate city from Seattle, founded by people of various Scandinavian origins. There is still a strong Scandinavian influence in the area. We have an annual lutefisk eating contest, and several restaurants serve it. I go for the meatballs, but have seen plates brought out with it jiggling like jello. I haven't had the courage to try it.Jana wrote: Yup, like taking cod fish and making lutefisk out of it! My grandmother used to make that stuff and oh my, the terror on the faces of us kids when it was lutefisk day. I suppose it is one of those foods that you either love it or hate it. lol.
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.