How to make overdrive that chugs

[professormudd]

Greetings all,

I just wanted to gain (no pun intended) some understanding of how to achieve that throaty, Mesa Boogie Triple Rec / EVH 5150, "chug" style overdrive. Is it all just gain+gain=moregain? If so, what stops their amps from hissing like a fuze has been lit? If not, what is required in a tube preamp to make this happen?

I would be very interested in any explanations, techniques, schematics, layouts, or any other information any of you would be willing to share on the subject.

Thanks in advance.

[xtian]

It's not (necessarily) about the amount of gain; it's the EQ and resonance that makes your cabinet "chug." There are a few schematics around for adding a Resonance control to your NFB loop.

[professormudd]

It's not (necessarily) about the amount of gain; it's the EQ and resonance that makes your cabinet "chug." There are a few schematics around for adding a Resonance control to your NFB loop.

Beyond the palm-muted "chug" it tends to also feel like a different "texture" of clipping. Is that solely due to the EQ/gain? I will look into the resonance functionality.

[bepone]

it is a combination of many factors, ofcourse closed cabinet is important and here the worst speaker of all time to became deaf IMO, shines Celestion V30 12"
is it possible also with others too but this one has desired characteristic for metal . resonance mod allready mentioned good recommendation.

then, i you start to pronounce chnn-chnn-chnn-..what do you hear? exactly that! there is no bass! +sound is fast with a lot of changes / per second!

your preamp section will be with very low capacitors value, to cut all the excessive bass + more of that.

you can say yea but there is bass i need that. ok yes you will add it at the end, where is not distorting in passing through many preamp stages (and creating farting overdrive)!

so this is telling you where tone stack will be, at the end, before PI. fast changing and precise sound? you need to avoid mud, so metal films and polypropilenes preffered! here and there carbon film.

output transformer with a lot of primary inductance to handle drop tuning! this means big core, not cheap peanut transformers what are labeled for 40w pickups with a lot of turns (ohms) to drive first section of the first input tube, which mostly on time working only in clean! why not to overdrive also this one? 20-25kohms of bringe pickup preferred!

so im not a fan of mesa boogie, 5150 has excessive and useles ampunt of max gain so need to be removed one stage and we are in Soldano teritory, and i can really recommend SLO50/100 amp and schematic for starting point...

[professormudd]

it is a combination of many factors, ofcourse closed cabinet is important and here the worst speaker of all time to became deaf IMO, shines Celestion V30 12"
is it possible also with others too but this one has desired characteristic for metal . resonance mod allready mentioned good recommendation.

then, i you start to pronounce chnn-chnn-chnn-..what do you hear? exactly that! there is no bass! +sound is fast with a lot of changes / per second!

your preamp section will be with very low capacitors value, to cut all the excessive bass + more of that.

you can say yea but there is bass i need that. ok yes you will add it at the end, where is not distorting in passing through many preamp stages (and creating farting overdrive)!

so this is telling you where tone stack will be, at the end, before PI. fast changing and precise sound? you need to avoid mud, so metal films and polypropilenes preffered! here and there carbon film.

output transformer with a lot of primary inductance to handle drop tuning! this means big core, not cheap peanut transformers what are labeled for 40w pickups with a lot of turns (ohms) to drive first section of the first input tube, which mostly on time working only in clean! why not to overdrive also this one? 20-25kohms of bringe pickup preferred!

so im not a fan of mesa boogie, 5150 has excessive and useles ampunt of max gain so need to be removed one stage and we are in Soldano teritory, and i can really recommend SLO50/100 amp and schematic for starting point...

Thanks for breaking that down for me. I always had a fondness for my Triple Rec (paired with a closed-back 4x12 of V30s just like you said). You also made a lot of sense of a (seemingly simple, but not for me I guess) concept that I had wrestled with.... I have always felt the metal amps I have played through had a lot of bass, but I read/hear everywhere that for metal all the bass is cut out.... You helped clear up that the bass is added after the overdrive, which makes sense to me.

I went and found some youtube clips of SLO amps and they certainly do seem to carry a lot of those qualities. Thank you so much for pointing me in this direction. I have a suspicion that I will end up building one, or something like it.

[T Wilcox]

So far the recipe I've found for best chug
5 gain stages, 4 will get there on some circuits especially with boost in front of amp
EQ in the loop with smiley face settings ( This is huge), The Mesa Marks have a GEQ post preamp which does this
Somewhat hot pickups ( I love SD JB's )
Right hand technique
The amps OP mentioned all have Soldano style cold clipper stage as well I think which gives a very fast attack

[bepone]

Thanks for breaking that down for me. I always had a fondness for my Triple Rec (paired with a closed-back 4x12 of V30s just like you said). You also made a lot of sense of a (seemingly simple, but not for me I guess) concept that I had wrestled with.... I have always felt the metal amps I have played through had a lot of bass, but I read/hear everywhere that for metal all the bass is cut out.... You helped clear up that the bass is added after the overdrive, which makes sense to me.

I went and found some youtube clips of SLO amps and they certainly do seem to carry a lot of those qualities. Thank you so much for pointing me in this direction. I have a suspicion that I will end up building one, or something like it.

no problem, i built several and have waiting one empty chassis and pcbs for another SLO

p.s. there is some file with recommendation online which component need to be changed for each effect, but usually first 2 stages coupling capacitors you can reduce 5-10 times (22nF to 2n2, or 47nF to 4n7!) and after if you are missing bass, just add in parallel to them, slowly until is working good with your cabinet! then with resonance mod you can add body to the lower bass,

enjoy the build