do you think hum, hiss, grounding issues are given more importance now?

[Stratto]

total rookie here. Do you think the amp kits today are getting better regarding noise issues? I remember listening to some amazing DIY amps in the past, but their noise was unbearable. But thanks to the forums I thinks these noise issues are finally being resolved and given the importance they deserve. So my question is, which is the least noisy amp kit you ever built, with 3 gain stages? and was it very quiet or noisy because of the clever circuit instructions, or because of the precautions you took by yourself during the building?

[R.G.]

Yes, I think that hum, hiss and grounding are being given more importance now - as they should be.

The first several waves of new amp builders and amp kit sellers have passed years ago. It used to be AMAZING!! that one could build a tube amp themselves, even from a kit. Now it's - well sure, you can build one, but how does it actually perform?

It's only magic until the knowledge of how it's done gets spread around. After that, you have to work for it.

[Stratto]

Yes, I think that hum, hiss and grounding are being given more importance now - as they should be.

The first several waves of new amp builders and amp kit sellers have passed years ago. It used to be AMAZING!! that one could build a tube amp themselves, even from a kit. Now it's - well sure, you can build one, but how does it actually perform?

It's only magic until the knowledge of how it's done gets spread around. After that, you have to work for it.

yes, it's amazing how things are evolving, even for the big brands. For example I checked recently the Orange Rocker 15, with a strat, single coils. I knew it was plenty loud for gigs, and I was expecting the averange noise level, but actually I was impressed by how quiet the amp was, even cranking the gain and volume, it was dead quiet, simply amazing.

[xtian]

I never built a "kit." I started by annoying the fine people here with lots of stupid questions.

Part of the knowledge we acquire is good lead dress practices, and proper grounding schemes. So important for low noise builds!

[TUBEDUDE]

To echo Xtian, the art of building has seen better shielding and grounding practices, and care in the placement of components. All of which make a quiet amp.
As we are flooded with 50 year old amps still around, that used random grounding and components placed for manufacturing efficiency, we lived with some hum and hiss. A well designed amp that's dead quiet at playing volume presents a dramatic contrast.

[Stratto]

To echo Xtian, the art of building has seen better shielding and grounding practices, and care in the placement of components. All of which make a quiet amp.
As we are flooded with 50 year old amps still around, that used random grounding and components placed for manufacturing efficiency, we lived with some hum and hiss. A well designed amp that's dead quiet at playing volume presents a dramatic contrast.

do you think old transformers were also noisier than modern ones?

[Phil_S]

I'm doubtful much has changed about transformers over the last 80 years or so except maybe improvements in the manufacturing process to produce them more efficiently or wind them better-faster. Enameled wire wrapped around a non-conductive core, surrounded by steel laminations. It isn't about the transformers as much as it is about placement of the transformers in relation to each other and perhaps with respect to the location of some other amp components.

[thetragichero]

when i got my 68 vibro champ first thing i did was open 'er up to replace electro caps and confirm the 3 prong plug was wired correctly (it wasn't, was hacked onto a normal 2 conductor cable). heaters were connected one side to ground. i understand not having a center tap on the transformer (for cost-saving) but no thought of artificial center tap or anything. not that this was their flagship amp but this is the big kahuna not caring that much about noise. say what you want about modern pcb amps but a well-designed pcb is access for a high gain amp
when I'm playing I'm okay with a little hum as it only is heard when i stop playing (i still shield all my guitars)

[sluckey]

Grounding one side of the heaters is effective, just not as effective as grounding a center tap. But it was plenty good for a cheap champ with a cheap 8" speaker that could not reproduce 60Hz very well. The additional cost outweighed the benefits in Leo's mind. The champ was just a student/practice amp that filled a market and was also a "hook" for a bigger fender.

As to the question in this thread, yes, we are obsessed about hum, hiss, and grounding issues. We have the time and can afford to make any amp be "all it can be". We no longer have to settle for just good enough.

[ChopSauce]

Well, I don't know about the past, really, but I just built a clone of (at least the circuit) of a Vox AC4 from the sixties and I'm pretty unsatisfied with its backgound noise.

Thanks to the internet, it is easier to know about good grounding practice...

... & ...

... I could read that our electromagnetical environnement is far (far) more polluted than at those times, which may partly explain...

[R.G.]

do you think old transformers were also noisier than modern ones?

I'll go with Phil on this one - there's no much new in the field of copper wire and silicon-iron alloys.

As a bit of an extension, for transformers what does matter big time is the amount of skill and time that goes into designing and implementing exactly where each wire in each winding goes in the winding window. This is not new, as there are legends and myths of how very good the high end hifi transformers were in the early 60s. But it was so expensive that finding an output transformerless power amp circuit was a holy grail for a few decades. The arcane arts of sectionalizing and interleaving the windings in a high quality transformer gets tricky. Once you've done it properly, then you have to figure out how to shield it from picking up stray hum fields. Again, that adds cost.

Businesses were no more or less eager to spend more money on transformers then than they are now.

There is one aside that doesn't get much play. Tranformers distort. They have, all built into the iron, nonlinearities that add a small amount of distortion no matter how carefully you wind them. Again, this isn't new to transformer designers, but it gets missed by amp enthusiasts.

[TUBEDUDE]

To echo Xtian, the art of building has seen better shielding and grounding practices, and care in the placement of components. All of which make a quiet amp.
As we are flooded with 50 year old amps still around, that used random grounding and components placed for manufacturing efficiency, we lived with some hum and hiss. A well designed amp that's dead quiet at playing volume presents a dramatic contrast.

do you think old transformers were also noisier than modern ones?

No, I've had good experiences with xformers. Some have mechanical noise, but I've seen that in old or newer units. The hum I'm speaking of is from bad design. The grounding scheme, or tranny placement.

[Stratto]

by the way, with all the knowledge you have here, why the heck don't you sell amp kits? There are step by step guides now from Stewmac and B.Y.O.C that even a beginner like me can understand, but the amp kits they offer are no big deal.

[Colossal]

by the way, with all the knowledge you have here, why the heck don't you sell amp kits? There are step by step guides now from Stewmac and B.Y.O.C that even a beginner like me can understand, but the amp kits they offer are no big deal.

Do you know how to make $10,000 selling amp kits?

Start with $20,000

[R.G.]

Knowing how [whatever] works, in great depth and detail, is not a good predictor of success in business.

To succeed in a one-man startup business, you have to love the business part of it, not the technical part, so much that you actively like juggling ordering and inventory, packaging and shipping, dealing with customers who are irate through no fault of yours, or are just ... um, a couple of beers less than a six pack. You have to want to deal with quarterly taxes, deducting what you can deduct, dealing with the city, state, and feds crawling right up your... um, account books just because. Running a one or two man shop involves 99% of the business cr... er, details, and if you're really lucky, you can play with amps (in this case) between 2AM and 4AM, just before getting another refreshing and re-charging night of sleep and rising bright eyed at 7AM to sign for deliveries. When deliveries actually come on time.