Low B - do we actually hear it?

[gui_tarzan]

Since there have been some pretty "deep" technical discussions lately I thought I'd ask this question:

Can the human ear actually hear the low B on a 5 string bass or are we hearing harmonics/overtones? Is there a pure 41hz that we can hear or are our minds fooling us?

[EtherealWidow]

The range of human hearing goes from 20Hz to 20kHz. Yes, you can hear the note. The amp and speaker you're playing through might not be able to reproduce it, depending on the design, though.

[gui_tarzan]

A musician/audiophile friend says we don't actually "hear" the primary note, we actually hear the overtones and "feel" it. I disagree, that's why I posed the question. I suppose being a bass player affects my opinion but I digress...

I have mild tinnitus since both of my eardrums burst several years ago (from a bad sinus infection) and can't hear anything above 12.3khz anymore but I have no trouble with low frequencies. I do have a lot of trouble with sound pressure from say 500-800hz since the eardrum issue, I guess that's because of the damage.

[Cantplay]

I have test tracks from 30Hz up, I can send you one if you like. Its flac, so it won't add as attachment here.

John

[gui_tarzan]

I found an online tone generator and I don't have any trouble hearing that note, and lower down to 15hz, then it turns into pulses. I think my friend's hearing is somewhat different from mine.

[Phil_S]

The geezer factor tends to roll off the highs, the lows not so much. Even so, with guitar topping out around 5K or 6K, you are loosing harmonic content; fundamentals and plenty of harmonics should still be solid well into old age unless you are actually going deaf.

With bass down that low, there is a visceral factor. I think you feel it as much as you hear it.

I think you've got the frequencies mixed up. Key #1 on the piano (which I know I can hear) is 27.5Hz. Low B is key #3 at ~31Hz. Low E on the bass is 41.2Hz. A is the only tone that has a whole number, multiples of 55.0 Hz.
Chart here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

[gui_tarzan]

Not mixed up, taken from a website (which we all know everything on the internet is true, right? lol)

Another site says the low E is 41.2hz and the low B is 30.8hz.

http://www.bass-guitar-info.com/FrequencySpectrum.html

[matt h]

(deleted)

[R.G.]

(1) Yes, we can hear low B
(2) Bass guitar pickups may not actually produce much low B, being primarily the harmonics.
(3) The human ear, presented with a series of harmonics of some low tone will actually *insert* the missing fundamental indicated by the overtones.

[Stevem]

Come on folks let's think about this, if you can sence a 40 hz or lower tone thru headphones then by all means you are hearing it!
It's not the same as standing far enough away from a 21" woffer for the air wave to propagate so you can hear t instead of feel it for God's sake!

[potatofarmer]

You and your friend are arguing different points. And you're both right.

The human ear can hear 40-ish Hz, sure.

What the bass guitar produces, and what the amp delivers... and on top of that, what the cab can deliver... typically the second harmonic (octave) dominates in perceived loudness.

If you want to see this argument go around in circles for years, I'm pretty sure threads like this make up 2/3rds of the TalkBass forums. Usually someone mentions that for live sound, subwoofers are high-pass filtered around 30 Hz, and someone else mentions how much more tight and punchy their bass sound got when they tried a high-pass filter in the 50Hz range.

Here's a useful thread, with pretty pictures to boot: http://www.talkbass.com/threads/bass-fr ... gs.510749/

edited to "second harmonic (octave)" for less ambiguity