Marshall 50W Speakers-Old Hands Advice Please

[David Root]

I finally fixed up my old '77 JMP 50W MV head with some nice old
Mullards.
(Interestingly I also had to replace the 100K PI resistor, which had drifted to 118K (!), I used an old carbon comp which is all I had at the time).

Now it sounds like S**t thru my Altec 417s and EV/Fane 200W TL806s. No s**t Sherlock! Great clean tone though.

I don't want another 4x12 in my shop, no room, is there a vintage 2x12 speaker combination that would give me the true tone? What I have now is unbelievably great clean Marshall tone (yes Virginia it really does exist) but overdrive, forget it.

2xG12H is stll only 60W, how about G12-65, I don't want to blow out a pair of '70s Rolas. What are my options?

[Cliff Schecht]

I like EV's 12's in a closed back cab with a Marshall stuff. Won't don't you like about this? The thing I love about EV's is they don't color your sound so much so you hear what the amp really sounds like. IMO if an amp can't sound good with an EV then it isn't a good sounding amp.. Color me ignorant if you will but I'm yet to try an amp with my 1x12 alnico EV SRO cab (open or closed back depending on the amp) that sounds bad, unless the amp sounds bad on everything. That's not to say that this is the end-all of speakers but for me, any Marshall I've tried with a TMB tonestack can be made to sound good through an EV..

[paulster]

Get Scumbacks in 65W or 100W power handling.

Not vintage in terms of manufacturing date but certainly in terms of the Celestion pre-Rola sound.

Problem solved, and no risk of blowing valuable vintage speakers.

[David Root]

Yes the EV/Fanes are relentless on exposing ragged ass hi-end. I'm talking ceramic magnets not Alnico.

They sound great clean, some people will say '70s Marshalls have no bass, that is simply not true.

If I turn down the Master and crank the volume it gets pretty rough on the high end thru my EV12L/Fane Studio 12L/TL806 cabs.

I guess I need to try them on the alnico Altecs/open back, can do that this weekend.

I have looked at the Scumbacks, but "opinions vary", one pro opinion I got was they are Weber speakers not vintage Celestions which is true to a certain extent but no-one else is even trying to do it and originals are getting ridiculous pricing.

[Gibsonman63]

I have a pair of celestion Heritage 30's in a 2 x12 closed back cabinet. I get more crunch out of that cabinet than any of my others.

I have read and heard good reviews about warehouse speakers, but I have not personally tried them. For the price, it may be worth taking a chance on a couple of speakers.

[Richie]

Another trick as you mentioned with those amps is, If the preamp is at a low setting and the master turned up,the amp will sound much brighter and or clean. You have to turn the preamp up quite a bit and it will warm up the tone. so the amp doesn't sound so bright.
You can do some things to the amp to make it less bright.
But as for speakers and or cab/they have a small version 2x12 cab that looks like a shruken 4x12.Which is much better than the 1936 cabs. And again as your thinking, you need a couple speakers that not only sound good,but can handle the wattage.
The 65s might be a good choice, or they make a 100w Gold celestion.Or go with something with a bit more low end rating.
I myself never liked the sound of the EVs.

[paulster]

But as for speakers and or cab/they have a small version 2x12 cab that looks like a shruken 4x12.Which is much better than the 1936 cabs.

Most of the 1936 cabinets are MDF and as dead as a dead thing, but there are some early ones (up to the JCM800-branded ones I believe) that were ply and a much more Marshall-sounding cab.

The shrunken 4x12 style cabinet is a nice, if rare, one though.

[Colossal]

I have a pair of EVM12Ls in a closed back 2x12 and have gotten pretty amazing tone with a 50W Marshall build with the preamp dimed and a PPIMV set about 12 o'clock. This same amp sounds really, really good with a pair of G12-65s as well. Richie is right on about the need to run the preamp up to get the warmth out of it. As Cliff pointed out, EVM12Ls are very flat sounding so you "hear" the amp not additional coloration from the speaker(s). If you've got a bright amp, that's what you're going to hear.

[David Root]

When I crank up the preamp and turn the master down (1-2) is when I get this unpleasant fizzy distortion on the EV/Fane pair of 1x12s.

I have an Avatar 2x12 cab with a pair of Altec 417B in it which I don't use much, I prefer the spatial quality of the two 1x12s with 417Bs. I could pull the Altecs and put in a pair of something more suitable. I would really like to get a pair of original cone '70s G12H if I could find them but I am worried about blowing them out.

Maybe I should just worry less and get some.

[kgreene]

David -

I agree you should just worry less and get the speakers you want - it's a 50W Marshall, right? If you really want the Marshall tone, forget this idea of beefing up the power handling capability of the speakers; that is the wrong move in my experience. I have gigged in pro bands in years past, using a 50W Marshall as part of my rig - the amp choice changed depending on the venue. For a while, I was using a Blackface Fender Vibrolux also, and if the room was right, I'd set the Marshall on top and play it thru the Vibrolux speakers. Couldn't believe the great tone I got. I played that same Marshall thru a Vox AC30 2x12 cab - it sounded great also. I've also used greenback 25W Celestions, new ones, which sounded good after they were broken in. The only time I did not appreciate the "true" Marshall sound was when I paired it up with speakers rated much higher power handling, and that would include EV's, and Celestions. Those other speakers won't blow unless you are really abusing them, in which case, just use something else. Good luck, I hope you nail the sound you want.

[David Root]

Thank you KG, I think that seals it for me. "Get Rola '70s G12H w/55Hz cones, don't worry, be happy!"

It is a 50W, a '77 2204 that was converted to the 2203 preamp before I bought it.

The other thing I learned is don't put them in an MDF cabinet, birch plywood only.

[tubeswell]

I have a pair of (chinese!) 25W Greenbacks in a JTM45 clone and they seem to handle it good, but I've never dimed it.

I like the Ipswich-made G12-20 s (which seem to handle more than 20W) and their 30W G10s

[selloutrr]

the JMP 50w MV head also came as a 2x12 combo
using 2 Rola Celestion g12-30 speakers


that will give you marshall factory tone.

They sound amazing in the studio! my all time favorite marshall amp is a '78 JMP 2x12 combo owned by the saltmine in AZ

[David Root]

I found four G12M 25W '77, blackbacks w/55Hz 444 cones, T2633, seem to be very clean 'n good lookin'. I went for it, will get two Avatar vintage 2x12s to go with them.

Not what I planned, but life is like that. No doubt will sound good. I really like two cabs in parallel.

Selloutr, who is the saltmine in AZ? I lived in Tucson for 5 years, '04-'09.

[selloutrr]

http://thesaltmine.com/