Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

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RyanThomas13
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Re: Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

Post by RyanThomas13 »

I took it off standby, said my little prayer "...please no troubleshooting" and of course ...the man upstairs decided I have more lessons to learn :)

First thing, very loud hum, too loud to be normal, especially when all the volumes are down and no guitar is plugged in. I wanted to see what the voltages were doing and I'm getting 310 at the plates of 6K6's.

Moved onto seeing where the bias was at, at 310vdc I was shooting for about 19mA. This is where it got weird. When looking at the back of the amp the bias pot on the left functioned normal, I could get a sweep of about 1mA to 17mA neither of which had any affect on the hum. I moved to the bias pot on the right, as I turned it down closer to 0mA the hum disappeared, as I raised it up approaching 19mA it begin to whistle loudly and into feedback. The other thing is that the bias pots were interactive, if I adjusted one to 15mA and then did the next one the same, when I came back to the first one, it had moved. I don't remember that being the case with other dual bias control amps I've had.

The only thing I've tried is switching the 6k6's around but it was the same thing.

Where's a good place to start? And quick question to make sure, pins 1 and 8 should be tied together like any other non cathode biased octal tube, correct?
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martin manning
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Re: Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

Post by martin manning »

I would try disconnecting the negative feedback and see if the squeal goes away. If it does then you should swap the OT primary leads.

Pin 1 is not connected on 6K6, so tying 1 and 8 won't hurt, but it's not necessary.
RyanThomas13
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Re: Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

Post by RyanThomas13 »

I think there is something going on with one side of the bias adjustment, I believe maybe the 25k pot is bad, but I think this not the main issue. I am temporarily moving to a single bias adjustment (shared on what I believe is the good pot), to eliminate variables. The squeal is gone and I did not notice a difference between the NFB wire connected or unconnected. BUT as it sits I'm only able to achieve about 6mA with the pot turned all the way up, so I might not be getting it hot enough to squeal like it was before.

Does it tell us anything that the excessive hum is eliminated when I turned the now single bias adjustment all the way down to 0mA? Or is this something we would expect to see?
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martin manning
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Re: Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

Post by martin manning »

RyanThomas13 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:41 pm I think there is something going on with one side of the bias adjustment, I believe maybe the 25k pot is bad, but I think this not the main issue. I am temporarily moving to a single bias adjustment (shared on what I believe is the good pot), to eliminate variables. The squeal is gone and I did not notice a difference between the NFB wire connected or unconnected. BUT as it sits I'm only able to achieve about 6mA with the pot turned all the way up, so I might not be getting it hot enough to squeal like it was before.
Yes probably the near cut-off state prevents any oscillation. I believe disconnecting one of the bias adjustment networks has caused the bias voltage to go more negative. It should be easy enough to test the suspect bias adjustment pot with a DMM. See if it shows the expected change in resistance to ground as you sweep it through its rotation.
RyanThomas13 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:41 pm Does it tell us anything that the excessive hum is eliminated when I turned the now single bias adjustment all the way down to 0mA? Or is this something we would expect to see?
Cutting off the output tubes will stop any signal from getting through. There may be something else wrong upstream.
RyanThomas13
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Re: Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

Post by RyanThomas13 »

I figured out the bias thanks Martin. I'm going to poke around this weekend, and see if I can track down this hum issue, and also maybe plug a guitar in for awhile and see what it sounds like even with the hum. Thanks Again
RyanThomas13
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Re: Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

Post by RyanThomas13 »

Ok I got to spend some time with the amp finally. I started by just checking voltages in the preamp, the value of the dropping resistors was just an estimation by me so I wanted to see how much it was dropping from the PI to v1. So I've got 298vdc on the plates of the 6k6's (which are NOS RCA's). This is a little higher than my original goal of 285-295 vdc, but people here have suggested the 6k6's should be able to handle this. After the first dropping resistor which I changed from 10k to 6.8k we get 255vdc above the PI, then it drops two more times and we get 217vdc above v1. Given the design concept to limit sag and utilize higher voltages in the preamp for a tighter sound, would you say these voltages seem acceptable?

Besides that I was most interested in trying to track down the source of the hum. I chopsticked around for awhile, moving wires and pushing on components and the preamp board, nothing changed the hum. By freak luck I went back to looking at voltages, and when checking the grid voltage of the a-side of the PI the hum completely disappeared, that's with one end of the DMM on ground obviously, and one end on the PI's pin 7. What does that tell us? None of the other grid's in the preamp had this effect.
sluckey
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Re: Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

Post by sluckey »

Disconnect the NFB wire from the impedance selector. Does hum go away?
RyanThomas13
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Re: Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

Post by RyanThomas13 »

So I tried disconnecting the NFB wire, the hum remained, as I touched the wire back on the 16 ohm terminal I would say it very slightly reduced in its intensity.

I also tried switching the PI tube, same result. And I tried using a shielded cable coming from pin 7, same result.
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martin manning
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Re: Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

Post by martin manning »

RyanThomas13 wrote: Thu Jun 27, 2024 2:56 pm ..when checking the grid voltage of the a-side of the PI the hum completely disappeared, that's with one end of the DMM on ground obviously, and one end on the PI's pin 7. What does that tell us? None of the other grid's in the preamp had this effect.
By connecting your meter to the PI input grid you are giving it a path to ground and biasing that stage into cutoff. That says source of the hum is in the preamp or PI.
What are the plate voltages on the preamp tubes?
RyanThomas13
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Re: Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

Post by RyanThomas13 »

Here's my voltages in red.
Deluxe 6K6 schematic.png
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GrayDigger
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Re: Need help tweeking a schematic for 6k6 amp

Post by GrayDigger »

RyanThomas13,

Replied to your PM - sorry I haven't been on in a bit. Modeled your amp in LTSpice, have a few thoughts. Please let me know if my reply and attachments received, if not I can try to post on this thread.

GrayDigger
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