Amp for fiddle

[Smokebreak]

More stages with less gain per stage is a way to hammer the dynamics that cause the G to pop out.. OTHER THAN working on the pickup system.

Instead of presence I would go with a cut control, then I would pick a corner frequency (higher than 100Hz actually) and make a bass cut control. Violin has such a short range. Looking more into the mid 300Hz range for the resonance to start and maybe that goes even up to 700Hz depending on what you come up with.

Killing it at any frequency is as easy as a cap and a resistor on the lowend, and a resistor and a cap on the highend. You know?

I don't understand how to pick a corner frequency and know with certainty that I'm cutting there.
As far as killing it I think I understand: interstage coupler then vol pot or voltage divider controls low, (as 1 example) , and cap across say a plate resistor controls highs. What are some other examples? Cathode cap would be another, but I haven't considered it in terms of cap and resistor vs resistor and cap arrangement. Series? Parallel? Both?

[Leo_Gnardo]

More stages with less gain per stage is a way to hammer the dynamics that cause the G to pop out.. OTHER THAN working on the pickup system.

Instead of presence I would go with a cut control, then I would pick a corner frequency (higher than 100Hz actually) and make a bass cut control. Violin has such a short range. Looking more into the mid 300Hz range for the resonance to start and maybe that goes even up to 700Hz depending on what you come up with.

Killing it at any frequency is as easy as a cap and a resistor on the lowend, and a resistor and a cap on the highend. You know?

I don't understand how to pick a corner frequency and know with certainty that I'm cutting there.
As far as killing it I think I understand: interstage coupler then vol pot or voltage divider controls low, (as 1 example) , and cap across say a plate resistor controls highs. What are some other examples? Cathode cap would be another, but I haven't considered it in terms of cap and resistor vs resistor and cap arrangement. Series? Parallel? Both?

In case Miles is busy I'll pitch in. Drying up the low end is easy enough by selecting bypass caps that work with the Rk to filter out excess low frequencies. The typical Fender 1k5 with 22 uF gets you roughly a 5 Hz corner, very wide band. A 1 uF cap - 107 Hz so you could start there. Of course there are secondary effects you can take into account buy I've found my Kowboy Kalkulations work out pretty well. Take any handy Fender or similar amp, try this, you'll hear that low end dry up a lot.

F = 160,000 div. by R x C, where C is in uF, R in ohms & F in Hz. I simplified it a bit for yez so you don't have to calculate the 2 x pi in the basement nor deal with the x .0000001 for C in Farads. You can also calculate for C, given an F.

C = 160,000 div. by R x F .

Whatever C you happen to have, close enough for rock and roll. Parallel 'em if you have to fine tune.

I think the math sticklers will give me an F if I keep on with this but I don't give a flying F, it's Friday and cocktail hour approaches...

[Reeltarded]

Check out low and hi pass there. It will be your friend.

http://www.ekswai.com/en_filters.htm

About pickup systems, in my opinion there is but one for anything but guitar.

http://www.pick-uptheworld.com/pickups.htm

[Phil_S]

Although the fundamental of the violin doesn't go below 200, I'd be wary of drying up the low end too much.

Leo has already made a reasonable quantification of the problem in a later post. I just wanted to emphasize that 200Hz (or 196Hz) is a fundamental, not a harmonic. There are harmonics at ~100Hz and ~50Hz that you may want to allow through. The richness of the violin is found in it's harmonic content, which, while subtle, is not to be disregarded.

[Reeltarded]

I would cut it off high and use a very low resonance to hump that back maybe.

Agree with all the concepts here. Let's build an amp!!!

[martin manning]

Miles what about Baggs parametric DI's? Any experience?

[Reeltarded]

Yes. Baggs is good stuff and it works fine. I prefer the B-Band system (both pickups) for most acoustic guitars.

The PUTW internal pickup system sounds just like the instrument. You choose your placement and because it's mounted at the boundary you get no phasing issue from any plate mode or standing wave. I love these on dobro, mandolin, banjo, fiddle.. anything with a blue front yard!

Now, back to this amp for the saw. Eeeeeeeeeee -crack- timber!!!!!

[Smokebreak]

How about L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic or Venue DI? This fiddle player seems to think they are pretty good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmeH4PvGHKw

Yes, he uses that in front of his amp, but can't seem to dial in/out what he likes. He's got the new one that is di/boost/tuner all in one. it is pretty huge.
I've actually been using the old one for about 15yrs on one of my gigs, with a MXRmicroamp, xlr out to board. I couldn't live without it. The oxymoron is it's all 20's/30's hot jass, and amps are heresy in that group, yet all our acoustic instruments are amplified with mains PA via mics or pickups. I digress. For this build the fiddle player will obviously be using an amp for this roadhouse stuff we play, and he's tried straight direct, straight to amp, and Baggs in front of amp, and can't seem to dial it in. Is it possible fiddlers are pickier than guitar players ?!

[Reeltarded]

YES

rofl

[Smokebreak]

Yes. Baggs is good stuff and it works fine. I prefer the B-Band system (both pickups) for most acoustic guitars.

The PUTW internal pickup system sounds just like the instrument. You choose your placement and because it's mounted at the boundary you get no phasing issue from any plate mode or standing wave. I love these on dobro, mandolin, banjo, fiddle.. anything with a blue front yard!

Now, back to this amp for the saw. Eeeeeeeeeee -crack- timber!!!!!

Thanks for the reminder that pickups shouldn't be overlooked. I gave him one of those dearmond bugs that historically get rubber-banded around the fiddle which sounds huge and he digs, but is kinda impractical live. Good for "different" sounds on records.

[Smokebreak]

More stages with less gain per stage is a way to hammer the dynamics that cause the G to pop out.. OTHER THAN working on the pickup system.

Instead of presence I would go with a cut control, then I would pick a corner frequency (higher than 100Hz actually) and make a bass cut control. Violin has such a short range. Looking more into the mid 300Hz range for the resonance to start and maybe that goes even up to 700Hz depending on what you come up with.

Killing it at any frequency is as easy as a cap and a resistor on the lowend, and a resistor and a cap on the highend. You know?

I don't understand how to pick a corner frequency and know with certainty that I'm cutting there.
As far as killing it I think I understand: interstage coupler then vol pot or voltage divider controls low, (as 1 example) , and cap across say a plate resistor controls highs. What are some other examples? Cathode cap would be another, but I haven't considered it in terms of cap and resistor vs resistor and cap arrangement. Series? Parallel? Both?

In case Miles is busy I'll pitch in. Drying up the low end is easy enough by selecting bypass caps that work with the Rk to filter out excess low frequencies. The typical Fender 1k5 with 22 uF gets you roughly a 5 Hz corner, very wide band. A 1 uF cap - 107 Hz so you could start there. Of course there are secondary effects you can take into account buy I've found my Kowboy Kalkulations work out pretty well. Take any handy Fender or similar amp, try this, you'll hear that low end dry up a lot.

F = 160,000 div. by R x C, where C is in uF, R in ohms & F in Hz. I simplified it a bit for yez so you don't have to calculate the 2 x pi in the basement nor deal with the x .0000001 for C in Farads. You can also calculate for C, given an F.

C = 160,000 div. by R x F .

Whatever C you happen to have, close enough for rock and roll. Parallel 'em if you have to fine tune.

I think the math sticklers will give me an F if I keep on with this but I don't give a flying F, it's Friday and cocktail hour approaches...

This is great!...and cocktail hour is officially here. Can't believe I forgot to grab a bottle of gin yesterday
So how does this work for say, a treble peak network, typical 470p/470K(which generally does not please my ears btw)?

[martin manning]

How about L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic or Venue DI? This fiddle player seems to think they are pretty good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmeH4PvGHKw

Yes, he uses that in front of his amp, but can't seem to dial in/out what he likes. He's got the new one that is di/boost/tuner all in one. it is pretty huge.
I've actually been using the old one for about 15yrs on one of my gigs, with a MXRmicroamp, xlr out to board. I couldn't live without it. The oxymoron is it's all 20's/30's hot jass, and amps are heresy in that group, yet all our acoustic instruments are amplified with mains PA via mics or pickups. I digress. For this build the fiddle player will obviously be using an amp for this roadhouse stuff we play, and he's tried straight direct, straight to amp, and Baggs in front of amp, and can't seem to dial it in. Is it possible fiddlers are pickier than guitar players ?!

I was thinking exactly that- use the Baggs Para or Venue DI for the frequency shaping, and go into an amp that can do a range from clean to mild distortion. Maybe your guy just hasn't tried the right one? If he's using an acoustic amp that is all clean, and he wants some dirt, it'd be nice to have him test a few from tweed to BF and see what flavor he likes.

Leo, I use 159155, k-ohms, and nF. It's a little more accurate, but mostly I like it because 1) that number is all on the diagonal of the keypad, and 2) it's easy to get to nF from either pF or uF (only three decimal places either way).

[Smokebreak]

Check out low and hi pass there. It will be your friend.

http://www.ekswai.com/en_filters.htm

About pickup systems, in my opinion there is but one for anything but guitar.

http://www.pick-uptheworld.com/pickups.htm

Oh wow this is making sense now. Looks like I'll be looking at ~2uf/1.5k first stage, then cut later. Maybe even FACs everywhere to get it dialed in

[Leo_Gnardo]

This is great!...and cocktail hour is officially here. Can't believe I forgot to grab a bottle of gin yesterday
So how does this work for say, a treble peak network, typical 470p/470K(which generally does not please my ears btw)?

Whaat !?! Drat then we can't sing
"I'm drinkin' wine -
I'm drinkin' gin -
We're lost in the ozone again"


Treble peak... maybe I'm in the ozone already. Show me one and I'll show you how to bypass it.

Miles' suggestion on a Vox-like "cut" control is hittin' me in the right place. Works much like a guitar tone control, but on the output drive circuit. Just a pot & cap in series, from one output tube grid to t'other. You could put a resistor in series with the pot, (5 - 10K or so) so it doesn't get too murky. I've done it with a 250K pot and 0.022 uF film cap. Vox does it backwards, the higher you dial the cut the more HF goes away. You may elect to do the same or join the rest of the world in clockwise = more brighter.

Short cut to what I think would be a great fiddle amp - along the lines of Allen's Sweet Spot (IIRC a double power Princeton), with a 15, add a cut control and reverb department, massage the EQ stack a bit and you're off and runnin'. And a dwell control on the reverb would be nice too. Beef up the power dep't if you feel like it.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Is it possible fiddlers are pickier than guitar players ?!

Only when they pizzicato. (Klang - bish - whomp.) I'll be here all weekend.

Leo, I use 159155, k-ohms, and nF. It's a little more accurate, but mostly I like it because 1) that number is all on the diagonal of the keypad, and 2) it's easy to get to nF from either pF or uF (only three decimal places either way).

NANO? That's, that's, un AMERICAN. (Why does it always remind me of Mork and Mindy?). Well, OK, no matter, the answers wind up being much the same within a farction of a percent. Besides I can't remember a big number like 159155. Although my phone number does match four digits of that. Hm, now maybe I will remember it. What a coincidence... You always get me thinkin', Martin.

I stick with ohms because all too often I'm figuring out passive crossovers. That's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it.