Variac for breaking in speakers

[amplifiednation]

The times posted in Jim's document for the G12H is unreal...I have to deliver the cab on Tuesday...I couldn't even get halfway there!

[selloutrr]

The sweep generator is the best way to go if you a program that sweeps or time to do it.

Yes 80-140hrs is the break in time with 8hr breaks between sessions it's quicker then years of playing but not a weekend project. The trick is to do it in batches or speakers not one offs

[Scumback Speakers]

If you follow the Weber method you will damage your speakers. The reason it is no longer on their site is that I found out it was crap. I followed that method with 100w M75's and they fried within 2 hours.

So I did a bunch of testing on the old blue frame models they used to build for me, and sure enough, due to the faulty build techniques they use it weakens their build, the cones/coils become overheated/misaligned, and they fail. I've got several burnt cones/coils I can show you, but let's just go with one, OK? This 10" speaker was in a box set at 8 volts with three other speakers. It was in the FBI box for less than three hours. Any questions?
[img768]http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/pmq/10M ... cdeath.jpg[/img]

After I complained to TA Weber about it, he admitted to me that Ted had never tested this break in method. Then TA took it off the Weber site so they couldn't be held liable. I can forward you TA's emails if you'd like. He then charged me to rebuild the speakers I used this method on saying it wasn't approved and I shouldn't have done it.

So I took it upon myself to figure it out. Here's how to safely do this.

Speaker break in with variac voltage settings. Wire your speakers in parallel to do more than one, but use these settings as if there were only a single (Two 16 ohm speakers use the 16 ohm setting). If wiring in series, double the break in time.

Variac break in times are cumulative, meaning total hours on the variac. You'll want to do them in two hour shifts (MAX), then two hours off to cool, then on again for two more hours. That means it will take two full days to do speaker break in:

Speaker Ohm Imp.........Power Rating..............Break in Voltage
8.....................................30 .....................................8
8.....................................65 ....................................13
16...................................30.....................................11
16...................................65.....................................15

A decent break in is 18-20 hours total, with two hours on, two hours off so the speakers can cool between sessions.

I haven't fried a speaker in two years since I got this method tested, and it's worked on my speakers, Celestions and Eminence speakers, too.

I can't guarantee it will work with any Weber built speakers. Based on my experience with them, it would be better to NOT use this method with them. They just can't handle this like a properly built speaker can.

[amplifiednation]

Thanks Jim,
Excellent advice.

So here we go...if I want to set this up, should I wire in a 1/4" plug with a two prong cord and just plug it in to the speaker cab??

[Scumback Speakers]

Thanks Jim,
Excellent advice.

So here we go...if I want to set this up, should I wire in a 1/4" plug with a two prong cord and just plug it in to the speaker cab??

Yep, I've got three like that. Cut off one end of the computer cord (IEC end), use the hot/neg, tape back the extra one so it doesn't make contact anywhere.

1/4 jack wiring is just like a guitar cord, hot to tip, ground to sleeve.

Always run your multimeter or voltmeter on your variac each time you do it. Why? Because these damned things drift. They're not as precision as "I measured it last month, it should be good!"

Trust me, I have five of these, from three different makers. They all drift so you need to measure them each time to be safe.

I'm going to go look for some that are digitally set, see if they're any better. Now that 80% of my orders have FBI service, it's something I need to check often.

You should, too, just to be safe.

[Mark]

Just as a side note Jim, how long had you been using Weber parts and when did you notice there were issues with Weber parts?

I have a Weber Silver Ten and I bought it as is has a better bass response than most 10" speakers on the market. I was a little worried that it might come with issues, but it does have the bass response I wanted and it seems to be going pretty good at the moment. It is a thirty watt model and I power it with 8 watts, so I guess power isn't an issue with this speaker.

I did email you and considered your 10" speaker, but the clips I heard on You Tube didn't convince me it had the bass response I wanted.

Mind you I still consider your product when I need to purchase speakers. The PVC speakers do sound interesting and Pete Thorn does a great job demonstrating them.

[Scumback Speakers]

Mark, can't really address your questions due to pending litigation, sorry.

[Diablo1]

Seems to me that you have two competing design criteria for speakers. If you want to build them strong enough to withstand 60Hz high watt voltage for an extended time during breakin, then the voice coil, cone, spider, surround and glue all have to be strong enough and temperature resistant to survive. If they're built that way, then all the components will weigh more and be less responsive to the higher frequency. Playing a guitar through a speaker isn't a continuous duty cycle like a variac, so isn't as abusive to the speaker. I bet if you put a vintage Jensen Alnico speaker on the variac this way, you'd destroy it.

[Scumback Speakers]

You are incorrect. I've used the improved break in method with the following Eminence (12 and 10"), Celestions, Tone Tubbies, Scumbacks, Jensen reissue speakers.

The amount of voltage I'm putting through four speakers never goes over 15-16 volts with a 100w speaker. When a 50w Marshall is set to 7-8 for volume it's putting out 34/36 volts. So I'm well under any feasible heat/mechanical limit.

And a vintage Jensen 10" survived in my old Gibsonette GA-8 amps with wah pedals in front and the volume set to max for several years being played 5-6 hours per day in my teens.

Proper build, quality components and solid design allows these speakers to be used for years, so that's not it. I'm talking about short cuts employed in the build process that kills longevity.

[amplifiednation]

I don't think this thread should be going in this direction to question manufacturing processes and quality control.

As a reseller of speakers its a great option to offer a broken in speaker and I think its cool Jim has shared info. No need to challenge it...but hey I guess it is a discussion...so carry on.

[Scumback Speakers]

I don't think this thread should be going in this direction to question manufacturing processes and quality control.

As a reseller of speakers its a great option to offer a broken in speaker and I think its cool Jim has shared info. No need to challenge it...but hey I guess it is a discussion...so carry on.

On this subject, I'm afraid I have copious experience, at least with my former suppliers QC and build practices. I could post more pics, but then TA would show up to threaten the forum site with a lawsuit, and other legal threats.

Or at least that's what he's done at the Metro and TGP forums, and he got suspended for doing it as well.

[Mark]

Hi Taylor

I hope I don't come over as trying to give Jim some heat, if it does sound offence than I apologise Jim.

I'm curious as I saw a Premier Guitar clip where your speakers are being played through Friedman amps and you talk about your association with Weber.

Good luck with your court case.

[Scumback Speakers]

Hi Taylor

I hope I don't come over as trying to give Jim some heat, if it does sound offence than I apologise Jim.

I'm curious as I saw a Premier Guitar clip where your speakers are being played through Friedman amps and you talk about your association with Weber.

Good luck with your court case.

Yep, it was after that video clip that TA decided that he was the designer of the speakers and that I didn't give him enough credit for building them. He asked for "more respect for the relationship to continue...".

Say WTF?

Weber was a contract manufacturer for me. They couldn't build 1/2 the speakers I offer now, and when I begged them to build new ones and told them how to build them, they couldn't figure it out. It was bad enough having to go through multiple "goofs" when they first were contracted back in 2005 (something Ted Weber blamed on his idiot $10 per hour labor force), but I put up with a lot of "Uh, sorry Jim, send that batch back so we can put the doping on..." etc, etc.

Shortly after that 2010 video came out is when TA showed his true colors, but as I said, pending litigation and attorney general cross complaints from California to Indiana plus Federal Trade Commission investigations are forthcoming. I just have to get a couple of days free to compile the paperwork and credit card fraud, send him a final demand for payment (which I'm sure he'll ignore), then file the complaints and evidence with those three bureaus.

I can tell you 2013 won't be Weber's year. But hey, you screw with the bull, you get the horns, right?

I no longer have any affiliation with Weber VST, it ended in May 2011. I should have ended it two years before when the old man passed away and I was no longer "the favored client", and just became "Weber's biggest client" as far as TA was concerned.

Sad state of affairs there in Kokomo, to say the least.

[pula58]

It is a whole lot quieter if you break-in the speaker while it is out of the cab. I just put them face up on the floor. This way, the sound from the front and back of the cone tends to cancel-out and the resulting volume is not anywhere near as loud as it would otherwise be.

[Scumback Speakers]

It is a whole lot quieter if you break-in the speaker while it is out of the cab. I just put them face up on the floor. This way, the sound from the front and back of the cone tends to cancel-out and the resulting volume is not anywhere near as loud as it would otherwise be.

This works for one or two speakers well. Not so much when you're doing 8 or 12 at a time, though.