sozo premiums in

[overtone]

good points, each has to decide for themselves

iknowjohnny - I have a couple of questions:

1. I am now confused, there are no Sozos called premium. Are you talking about the "vintage hand wound" yellow ones or the blue ones mentioned by selloutrr? (That is a good point from selloutrr about the type of circuit involved.)

2. To keep things in perspective: when you made the discovery about using Sozos - was that the only thing you changed at that time?

For information: When I tested both sorts of yellow Sozos each had been in an amp for 100 hours previously. I could hear them get less edgy during the first 10 hours and I am deaf as a door post. I think it is this initial ugliness that you are hearing. It seems to me that your new ones just have some catching up to do on the first ones.

Cap discussions fill really up the net!
Give it all some time. Drink a bottle of wine or two.
Cheers.

[iknowjohnny]

1. I am now confused, there are no Sozos called premium. Are you talking about the "vintage hand wound" yellow ones or the blue ones mentioned by selloutrr? (That is a good point from selloutrr about the type of circuit involved.)

yes, vintage hand wounds. But premium is just a way of saying the better ones instead of this two finger typist having to type out "vintage hand wounds" every time i reference them. So no, not the blue, the yellow hand wounds.

2. To keep things in perspective: when you made the discovery about using Sozos - was that the only thing you changed at that time?

yes. I since have played with power tubes and bias, but understand that when i installed the premiums i hadn't touched that since the last time i spent time playing the amp with standards. I said the premiums possibly didn't sound as good, but i always use the disclaimer "possibly didn't" or some such phrase because they are close enough that i can't be sure. But the point is if they are so close that i can't tell then unless the premiums improve a lot more from break in then the standards then the standards are the way to go. I still hold out hope tho because some of you said they are better and i know those who did have good ears and experience with the sozos.[/quote]

[overtone]

OK, thanks for clearing that up for me.
So, a further 6 hours of running on the new ones would be fair for you to decide which ones work for you.
I like that you are doing a hands on test to make your own mind up.

[dartanion]

Ya'll should try some STKs. Great value for American made caps that are very sweet tonally. The Sozo pricing is freaking insane and not worth the extra money when you can track down real mustards for about the same price.

[Travst]

Ya'll should try some STKs. Great value for American made caps that are very sweet tonally. The Sozo pricing is freaking insane and not worth the extra money when you can track down real mustards for about the same price.

Who are you buying from?

[JamesHealey]

Yeah real mustards have to be 10x the price of Sozo atleast..

[Travst]

My question was where he was buying the STKs. I looked around at distributors and there don't seem to be any 'point and click' sites to order from. I don't want to futz with getting quotes to try them.

[dartanion]

Ya'll should try some STKs. Great value for American made caps that are very sweet tonally. The Sozo pricing is freaking insane and not worth the extra money when you can track down real mustards for about the same price.

Who are you buying from?

STKs or Mustards?

STKs directly from them. Mustards from various sources, in which I don't think I have spent more than about $1 per cap. When you find them, buy as many as you can.

[C Moore]

Below are just a couple of posts discussing the Sozo "burn-in" period for caps. Not something I believe at all. But that is just my opinion. One of the posts below is from RG Keen. His words must hold water, even if mine do not.
Best
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Re: Burn in/Break in
by backline on Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:17 pm

It is a marketing ploy by Sozo. Why is it that components sound better after this "bun-in" process? And, after 100 hours, it is not possible that a person could remember what the caps sounded like when they were new. What if the burn-in is complete after 63 hours and you miss the big sweetening because you are still waiting for hour number 100?
It is just more marketing, like $150.00 power cords. They have you waiting for some magic process to take place, and you don't want to be the only guy that does not hear it do you? So all the customers who bought their expensive products log into to INTERNET forums and say Yeah, Yeah I hear it. Tighter bass, sweeter mids, less shrill in the top end, etc., etc. Mercury Magnetics does the same thing with their transformers. People want to believe they have something special or "magic" going on that will make their amp sound fantastic. It Is Marketing.
Good Luck
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Re: Burn in/Break in
by R.G. on Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:36 pm

Burn in: Weed out the earliest-failing or weak components which would otherwise fail in a customer's hands

Break in: get the earliest part of the wear curve, when characteristics change most, over with early, and in a controlled manner.

Burn in is a "make it fail now if it's going to" process. It's designed to force weak units to fail when you can do something about it.

Break in is a controlled process of getting the early wear out of the way, and is mostly applicable to mechanical processes. Break in is what you do to car engines, using them gently until the just-machined sliding parts wear a bit smoother. There is some reason to believe that speakers break in, as the mechanical flexures get stabilized to their long-term condition.

There is no reason whatsoever to believe that purely electronic things like capacitors and resistors have a break in process. If your capacitors are not solidly built, there are mechanical forces that act on the plates inside the cap, and this could plausibly cause some kind of mechanical changes inside the cap. But saying that about one's products implies a flakey construction, as there's no case where it's better to let the insides of a cap slosh around. There could be some chemical basis for time making a capacitor change. In fact, this happens to 100% of all electro caps. But it's not something you'd think was necessarily good; it just means the cap is chemically stabilizing to what it will be eventually, or it was not quite up to the task at hand, and got there without failing catastrophically. Again, not something to write home about.

But it makes great advertising in a market where older is usually defined as better. If you're good enough to recognize when something like a capacitor has a break in mechanism, why not build it the way it will be and eliminate the break in time? The only good reason I can think of to do that is if you don't know how, or care little enough for your customers to make THEM do the suffering through stabilization. Hmmm... that attitude would come naturally to an MBA, now that I think of it.

[Colossal]

I politely disagree with Backline's wholesale dismissal that quality parts are mere marketing trickery and I invite him to continue enjoying his Budweiser and wine by the box. Marketing is the art of separating people from their money but this should not imply that all products lack integrity and tangible quality because of successful marketing. Consider a lawnmower made in China and one made for twice the cost in the US; both cut grass, but we know which one will still be in service for more than a year.

[dartanion]

My question was where he was buying the STKs. I looked around at distributors and there don't seem to be any 'point and click' sites to order from. I don't want to futz with getting quotes to try them.

Hey John,

Contact Jeremy Ledford, aka lastwinj here on TAG. Together, Germ and I bought a shitload of values in large quantities, and advertised them here in the for sale section. We still have a lot left, so drop Germ a message.

Also, these caps sound great right off the bat. No need for "burn in" to sound right. They are made custom to our specs, so there is no real distributor, we're just sharing these great caps with whomever wants to use them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the pricing and values:

Go here for pics:

Code:
http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu170/scinnimin/STK/


pricing is as follows:

all are 600v and 5% unless otherwise noted. All are film foil polypropylene.

330pf
470pf
1000pf
2200pf
4700pf
0.01uf
0.022uf
0.033uf
0.047uf
0.082uf
0.1uf 100v

plus shipping, weights shown

5pcs each 30.75, 5oz packed, can ship first class

10pcs each 60.50, 8oz packed, can ship first class

25pcs each 148.75, 1.5lbs packed, fits in small priority flat rate box

50pcs each 292.5, 2.5lbs packed

100pcs each 575.00, 4.5lbs packed

You can contact myself or darin (dartanion) to order some. Paypal addy for these will be vbrooke1@yahoo.com

thanx guys!!! Lets get these moving.

germ

[Richie]

Why don't Sozo sell premium caps, that are already "burned in" so the customer don't have to burn them in or wait to see how they sound after the burn in period.

[Alexo]

Why don't Sozo sell premium caps, that are already "burned in" so the customer don't have to burn them in or wait to see how they sound after the burn in period.

...and more importantly, why isn't there an upcharge for it?

[Cliff Schecht]

Why don't Sozo sell premium caps, that are already "burned in" so the customer don't have to burn them in or wait to see how they sound after the burn in period.

That's like selling "preformed" electrolytic can caps. They eventually unform if they sit around and would need to be reformed anyways. I'm not sure how much forming the Sozo's actually do but they must somehow be changing inside after the burn in period.

[brewdude]

Consider a lawnmower made in China and one made for twice the cost in the US; both cut grass, but we know which one will still be in service for more than a year.

Probably be the Honda.