,......

[Normster]

$2K IS a lot of money for sure. So is $1K! Let's face it, tube amps are expensive and the decision to buy based on clips is risky at best. I haven't heard any of Nik's amps, but I have heard a REAL Dumble or two, built many Dumble clones, heard most (if not all) D'Lite variants, and a built few Trainwreck circuits including the Rocket.

If you like the tone in that youtube clip, by all means build or buy a Rocket. You won't be disappointed. A Dumble-style amp probably wouldn't do it for you.

If you want a little more versatility, the OTS is probably a pretty decent amp. Maybe even spring for the HRM or Bluesmaster versions.

However, if you need an amp that's custom voiced to your tastes and playing style, you really only have two alternatives...learn to mod (or build) your own amps OR pay a premium to have an experienced builder craft one for you. There are at least half a dozen builders on this forum who would PM you their prices and terms. Just ask and I'm sure you'll get a few responses. Be prepared to wait since they all have backlogs.

Hope this helps.

In the interest of complete disclosure, Moss at BrownNote is a very good friend of mine and we've built more than a few amps together. However, Moss would never agree to build you a D'Lite if you were looking for Rocket tone.

[Bob-I]

No one who has posted in this topic seems to have experience with both of the amps that I'm debating, which was why I made this topic, not for people to say one is better than the other even though they have only played one of the two (if that).

The D'lite is $2200 for a 22w amp, I'm not paying that much for an amp. The OTS is $1400 for a 50w amp (shipped) which is more reasonable. Besides, the D'Lite is Dumble inspired, the OTS is a clone of Dumble (the best that they could do anyways). In my opinion, I don't see a single thing the D'Lite has over the Ceriatone.

The reason the 'Wrecks are so appealing to me is because of their simplicity and dynamics (clean to overdrive with a turn of the volume knob, no pedals to press). I might go with the OTS, but I wish there was a way to A/B them before I pay over $1000 for an amp.

I hope I'm not sounding rude, but this is an important decision, lots of money being spent.

I can understand the money thing, spending $1400 or more and not being satisfied with the outcome is a bummer.

The D-Lite is available in a 44 watt version for only $100 more if you need that much power.

IMHO the biggest difference between the D-lite and the overtone is that Moss and Norm have tons more experience building and tweaking a Dumble style amp. The amp isn't just assembled from a schem and shipped, it was months/years of refinement. The Overtone from what I've seen, it's a true Dumble circuit, and some folks have replaced transformers on Ceriatone stuff because the Asian made supplied are not as good as some of the US manufactured from MM and Heybour.

I can't help you much on the Trainwreck other than to say that the Rocket is really a pretty clean amp. The Express and Liverpool have more of the "clean to mean" type of gain you're looking for.

For gigging I use a Dumble I built from some of the same concepts Norm and Moss use on the Brownnote, and a Rocket like head for the chimy cleans. I have 3 distinct tones that way with the Tonebone amp switcher, but the Dumble cleans really do the trick as well.

Good luck in the search.

[Rouse94]

$2K IS a lot of money for sure. So is $1K! Let's face it, tube amps are expensive and the decision to buy based on clips is risky at best. I haven't heard any of Nik's amps, but I have heard a REAL Dumble or two, built many Dumble clones, heard most (if not all) D'Lite variants, and a built few Trainwreck circuits including the Rocket.

If you like the tone in that youtube clip, by all means build or buy a Rocket. You won't be disappointed. A Dumble-style amp probably wouldn't do it for you.

If you want a little more versatility, the OTS is probably a pretty decent amp. Maybe even spring for the HRM or Bluesmaster versions.

However, if you need an amp that's custom voiced to your tastes and playing style, you really only have two alternatives...learn to mod (or build) your own amps OR pay a premium to have an experienced builder craft one for you. There are at least half a dozen builders on this forum who would PM you their prices and terms. Just ask and I'm sure you'll get a few responses. Be prepared to wait since they all have backlogs.

Hope this helps.

In the interest of complete disclosure, Moss at BrownNote is a very good friend of mine and we've built more than a few amps together. However, Moss would never agree to build you a D'Lite if you were looking for Rocket tone.

I'm not really sure if I'm looking for a Rocket tone, I just know that I love the sound of AC30 cleans, and that youtube video had really smooth and singing like overdrive...It sounded perfect, buts its youtube so I have no idea if I would be able to reproduce such tones, the internet just doesn't have much info on such amps, since only less than a dozen were made (or so I've heard)...I also know it has to be REALLY loud to be able to get a decent amount of gain, unless you had an attenuator, but it still might be too loud and I could possibly loose some tone.

Dumble overdrives sound great but the cleans are lacking a little something, I have no idea what, but they are...and cleans play a huge part in my playing, so they have to sound good. This is stuff is just over my head when I can't even play them...

[Phil_S]

It seems you want a great deal out of one box. Maybe you'd do better with one of these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-nHCW0eg0E
Watch it all the way through...it's worth watching even if it isn't what you want.

[Rouse94]

It seems you want a great deal out of one box. Maybe you'd do better with one of these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-nHCW0eg0E
Watch it all the way through...it's worth watching even if it isn't what you want.

I'm not wanting versatility, just chimey full cleans (ac30) and singing smooth overdrive, I'm just looking for very specific tones.

That box seems like a jack of all trades, master of none type of deal.

[doveman]

That's pretty cool ...

I'm another who's going to recommend the D'Lite. I built a D'Lite 22/33 as my first build for less than $1000 initally. I run it with 6L6 tubes (33w) and an EVM12L and you can gig with a band with an efficient speaker like the EVM. It was my first and only build and the build post is posted on this forum if you are interested.

The D'Lite plays well on the ODS setting and cleans up good for me by rolling off the volume on the guitar. Although I occasionally get real cleans with it with the footswitch. Also, occasionally you can beef up even more with the other footswitch (bypassing the tone stack).

While I haven't heard the Ceriatones or the Dumbles in person, I really like the D'Lite. For the money ... it's got it going on. It seems to match up with what you initially described. Good luck.

[mlp-mx6]

No one who has posted in this topic seems to have experience with both of the amps that I'm debating, which was why I made this topic, not for people to say one is better than the other even though they have only played one of the two (if that).

The D'lite is $2200 for a 22w amp, I'm not paying that much for an amp. The OTS is $1400 for a 50w amp (shipped) which is more reasonable. Besides, the D'Lite is Dumble inspired, the OTS is a clone of Dumble (the best that they could do anyways). In my opinion, I don't see a single thing the D'Lite has over the Ceriatone.

The reason the 'Wrecks are so appealing to me is because of their simplicity and dynamics (clean to overdrive with a turn of the volume knob, no pedals to press). I might go with the OTS, but I wish there was a way to A/B them before I pay over $1000 for an amp.

I hope I'm not sounding rude, but this is an important decision, lots of money being spent.

It seems to me that you have some "ideal" sounds in your head, but very little experience playing amps that have those tones. I would suggest that you try to find examples of these amps in your town that you can play before you put your hard-earned money down. Your profile does not say where you live. Perhaps if you asked some forum members in/near your town to let you try their amps with your guitar you would have MUCH better information from which to base your decision.

There are several variations on the Dumble-style circuit, with varying levels of "chimey, glassy, whatever" cleans, and "singing, stinging, whatever" distortion. I have built my own Dumbles (2 so far, 3 in progress) and a couple Wreck-style (Express and Liverpool types, with a Rocket waiting only on transformers (well, on the cash for xfmrs!)). They are NOT the same thing at all.

If you need/require any real control over the volume you will have a hard time with just about any 'Wreck. Yes, they're simple. They're also LOUD. I don't mean just a little loud, I mean LOUD and UNRULY (in the best way possible). You'll swear it is WAY more than 35 watts.

Let us know where you are and I'd bet that some forum member would be more than happy to let you test drive their amps.

[Bob-I]

....and that youtube video had really smooth and singing like overdrive...It sounded perfect

But that's also a real TrainWreck. I'd doubt if a clone will sound as good.

[briane]

The D'lite is $2200 for a 22w amp, I'm not paying that much for an amp. The OTS is $1400 for a 50w amp (shipped) which is more reasonable. Besides, the D'Lite is Dumble inspired, the OTS is a clone of Dumble (the best that they could do anyways). In my opinion, I don't see a single thing the D'Lite has over the Ceriatone.

If you read through this site you will see why a dlite is considered vastly superior to ceriatone. I do have a ceriatone, and while their a good amp, they dont go the extra mile with super top quality components or design. They are good, you get what you pay for. If you buy a ceria, set aside a couple of hun for someone to bring it up to spec.

Deciding what you want based on price is a mistake waiting to happen. Youll end up with a piece of cr*p you dont want!

What my father always said, figure out what you want, figure out the best, then figure out how to get there. Just looking at numbers dulls the mind, and ignores options of aquirement.

I think you want a dumble style. Contrary to your views, many of us do have experience with dstyle and wrecks....Thats the whole point of ampgarage.

[dartanion]

I know both Dumbles and Train Wrecks very well, and from the perspective of a builder, I would think a Dumble type amp is more what you describe in tonal preference. But it also depends on your preference in amp topology too. Simple tone machine (Wreck) vs. Kitchen Sink Amp (Dumble). If some requires channel switching, Fx loop, etc.; it's a Dumble type. If you are a pedal board and cleanish amp guy, Rocket or Dumble. If you are a straight guitar + cable guy, Express or Liverpool or Dumble. The Rocket is left out as if it is built right, is not a gainy amp at all. Cranked should remain only mildly distorted, but with lots of swirl and chime. Kind of limited without a pedal board or some incredible chops.

Anyway, you also need to consider more than just price of the amp. Ceriatone builds a good amp, however they are doing it on a price point and certain things are a compromise. Transformers are the main issue and matter a ton. Ceriatone's are well made, just not exactly close to the transformers used in other Dumble type or Train Wreck type amps. As well, different builders go for their own voiceings as well as build to customer spec (build me a Francesca, Connie, #124, etc.), so component choice and transformer choices matter as well as layout. Guys like Moss, Brandon, Jelle, Andy Fuchs, as well as other builders here build great Dumble type amps that are freakishly good. There are also a few great Wreck builders that do the same, most notably Allyn, so these bases are covered. Look around at used gear and search for these builders and you'll find amps close to Ceriatone's new pricing. As well, you'll be able to recoup your cash much easier if don't like the amp with a boutique builder vs. Ceriatone.

I am not even a Dumble guy really, I am more of a simple approach guy so I gravitate towards Wrecks, so I have no motivation to push you towards a Dumble. It's your choice to do what you please with your money, however I think your best investment, unless you build one yourself, is to buy a used boutique Dumble type amp. Check all the gear related forums for sale areas and you'll find lots of Dumble style amps for sale.

[jelle]

I totally agree with Dart.

Make sure you actually play the amp you want to buy before making a decision. If you are in the Manhattan area, please feel free to contact me. I can demo a Dumble style amp. Also the amps by Fuchs can be found used as well and can be bought across the country.

BTW, Have you considered a modified silverface fender amp? That might be a cheaper way to get those tones if you have a tech that you trust.

Good luck!

[Rouse94]

The D'lite is $2200 for a 22w amp, I'm not paying that much for an amp. The OTS is $1400 for a 50w amp (shipped) which is more reasonable. Besides, the D'Lite is Dumble inspired, the OTS is a clone of Dumble (the best that they could do anyways). In my opinion, I don't see a single thing the D'Lite has over the Ceriatone.

If you read through this site you will see why a dlite is considered vastly superior to ceriatone. I do have a ceriatone, and while their a good amp, they dont go the extra mile with super top quality components or design. They are good, you get what you pay for. If you buy a ceria, set aside a couple of hun for someone to bring it up to spec.

Deciding what you want based on price is a mistake waiting to happen. Youll end up with a piece of cr*p you dont want!

What my father always said, figure out what you want, figure out the best, then figure out how to get there. Just looking at numbers dulls the mind, and ignores options of aquirement.

I think you want a dumble style. Contrary to your views, many of us do have experience with dstyle and wrecks....Thats the whole point of ampgarage.

I have no idea where you got that ceriatones uses crappy parts, I haven't seen a single person say that, they all say they are full of quality parts and built very well, just because its cheaper and made in another country, doesn't mean it sucks...I've even heard that someone de-gooped a Dumble and it used radio shack parts hmm...

and about it having bad transformers, even if they had cheap transformers, which I doubt they do, it wouldn't matter because its cheaper to order one locally (shipping costs since transformers can weigh a ton).
I think the Ceriatone OTS is the amp for me after reading bunches and bunches of reviews and listening to lots of clips (they all generally sound the same). Nik's a nice person and really takes his customers seriously, if anything were to go wrong, he would deal with it personally, I have nothing to worry about.

Thanks everyone, topic closed

[jaysg]

I've even heard that someone de-gooped a Dumble and it used radio shack parts hmm...

Radio Shack transformer for the relay power supply. He's generally more selective.

Since you're going with Nik, depending on where you are in the world, you might save some money and end up with a better amp by buying transformers more locally. Heyboer Fender stuff from Heyboer or Allen for example, if you're in the US. Hammond Fender stuff if you're in Canada.

[dartanion]

There is more to transformers than being well built, good quality parts. I used a lot of Ceriatone transformers in the past, and have found his stuff to be good quality, just not quite right tonally. The Ceriatone Wreck OT misses the target in way that makes a wreck sound Marshallesque. Not a horrid tone at all, just not wreck like. I would suggest at least upgrading the OT.

Also note that you have shipping and importation fees that will cost you $100+, so you are approaching the cost of a used boutique dumble type.

But hey! It's your money, so enjoy your OTS.

[Structo]

The shipping was something I was going to mention.
Depending where you live.

I am on the left coast and it would cost $114 shipped via UPS.

Without transformers, looks to be around $70.

So you save $44 if you get it without trannies.
But are you going to be able to get a tranny set for $44?

I too have heard that at least the OT is lacking a bit tonally.
So you might consider replacing that.

Those are without the head cab.

There is something wrong with his weight on the head cab.
He has it listed as 25 kg.
No way the head cab weighs over 50 lbs.

Be sure you know what each configuration of the amp means.

I never noticed this before but for some reason it bothers me to see radial lead filter caps mounted like this.
They look to be too tall to mount vertically so he has them at an angle.
That does not seem like a good method to me.
This is the HRM 100.

I also can't read the orange drop markings to see what type they are.
I wonder if they are blurred intentionally?

[img:640:480]http://www.ceriatone.com/images/complet ... _all2B.JPG[/img]
[img:640:480]http://www.ceriatone.com/images/complet ... 00/b8B.JPG[/img]