Carbon Fiber as an alternative to wood for cabs?

[Cobra]

I'm wondering if there is any experimentation being done with alternative materials for cab construction, especially carbon fiber, but also other natural or man-made composites?
Just thinking outside the box of conventional wisdom, from improving tone, to cost & manufacturing issues...

[M Fowler]

Your talking about the head cab right? I have be thinking about how I can get a really cool retro looking build going on, like it had come out of the 40's. Yesterday while getting some parts for my build I was actually going up and down every isle looking for anything in the home improvement store that could be use to build a retro style head and noticed some thick aluminum floor register covers that had some unique designs, some were flat and others raised.

Let us know what you have in mind for the carbon fiber cab project. Well they make street rod bodies, sports car bodies, and motorcycle parts should be able make a cab too.

[Tubetwang]

amp building is an extremely conservative business...folks want to have an amp that looks like the one their hero pictured in Guitar Player is playing...

In my opinion, the future lies in developing a lightweight battery that could power a couple of 100 watts amp. Said battery could be recharged in 15 minutes.

[drhulsey]

... alternative materials for cab construction, especially carbon fiber...

Carbon fiber has a very unique and cool appearance. It is the DICKENS to cut when already laid up in resin. You can really dull some blades on a saw I'm not sure if you can cut it with a water jet or not. Watch out for the dust when sawing.
If you're going to cover a wooden carcass with CF cloth and resin, it's about like laying up fiberglass. Go to the internet (Thanks, Al Gore ) for tutorials.
There are sources on ebay for CF already laid up in resin, CF woven cloth, and even CF yarn (roving tow). I have cut up CF fibers to add to epoxy glue for strength.

[mcrracer]

There is a guy over on Talkbass who is doing some things with building composite cabs. I have talked with him and he seems pretty knowledgeable about what he is doing. Long thread but worth it if you are interested in that kind of stuff...
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=432560

[Structo]

Man, I read most of that thread. Pretty industrious project.
Very cool cab.

My father in law is a former model maker for NASA and he keeps bugging me to build an electric guitar out of carbon fiber or some other composite.

The guy can make anything and his specialty if he was to be labeled with one, is layups of fiber glass.

He has built some amazing things out of it and he is constantly looking at things as possible molds for his projects.

[jaysg]

My father in law is a former model maker for NASA and he keeps bugging me to build an electric guitar out of carbon fiber or some other composite.

I'm not sure whether Ned Steinberger got rich or not doing that. His guitars had their day. Aren't some Parker Flys composite? I read an article about Parker. He's doing Jazz boxes now, since the Fly never really made it to the mainstream.

Regardless, please show him some 1-12", 2-12", and 4-12" cabinets and ask him to cost them out in composites. There should be a day when it's competitive with wood. It is just a matter of time.

[drhulsey]

... Aren't some Parker Flys composite?

CF finger board on mine, and CF reinforced neck. VERY THIN

[jaysg]

CF finger board on mine, and CF reinforced neck.

I don't claim to know much about them. I thought the necks and bodies of some models were all composite. I tried a few here and there. They didn't have a neck shape I really liked. They sure are light though.

[skyboltone]

Gibson made one called the Corvus. It was made out of bubble gum or something similar. Not really successful commercially they dropped it after a short time. Often called the "pacman" guitar.

[img:504:768]http://www.clapton.dk/Iwish/gibson-corvus-i-body.jpg[/img]

[rfgordon]

I had a guy ask me "just how light weight can you make a 15 watt combo?"

Well, I found a source for carbon foamboard and carbon fiber sheets, so, in theory, I could lay up a fiber-foam-fiber sandwich cabinet. Even if I still used a wood baffle, I figured the cab would weigh about 3 pounds.

Unfortunately, the cab materials cost came in at just over $2000!! So the guy went with a pine cab--big surprise.

But, ya know, if someone did build it, there's always some guy with lunch money to burn who would buy it! If Breedlove can sell a "custom guitar experience" weekend with massages and wine for $25,000, you could sell a carbon fiber amp cab.

[LeeMo]

And then there's the Rainsong.
http://www.rainsong.com/

The beauty of resin and fiber is being unleashed from planes and angles. You can make flowing curves or any shape that you can imagine. It opens up shapes "outside the box".The labor is higher but can be brought into check with air powered chop and spray techniques. You can also use multipart moulds with vacuum injection. Volume purchases of materials brings the cost down, also.
Just some thoughts.
LeeMo

[drhulsey]

... I thought the necks and bodies of some models were all composite...

Parker had a display at Summer Namm several years ago with the different stages of a Fly in production. I remember the CF strapping applied to the back of the neck. The body was mostly wood, very thin, and I believe had CF reinforcement as well. Mine is painted black. The CF fingerboard with SS frets is like holding a woman's thin, soft, delicious wrist... but I digress It has piezo pickups in the bridge saddles as well as magnetic pickups. All in all a nice instrument to own– lots of good engineering Certainly different from a Strat or LP.

... Well, I found a source for carbon foamboard and carbon fiber sheets...

All kinds of neat stuff here:
http://dragonplate.com/
Warren Buffett might be able to afford it

[Structo]

Hehehe, when I'm not tinkering on amps, in my other life I'm a plasterer.

Some of you may be familiar with EFIS or Dryvit systems.

It's the stucco looking stuff that is made from styrofoam and then a fiberglass weave fabric is laid on with a mix of Portland cement and a polymer material.

It can get pretty rigid as a result.

Even though I hate working with the stuff it was a major part of our work for many years. But then some lawyers found out that it could leak and so the law suits started flying. Now we only use it for accents and gingerbread over regular Portland cement stucco.

I remember a few years back when we first started using this stuff and fellow plasterer who fancied himself an inventor decided to make a small boat out of the stuff. I can't remember what thickness of foam he used.
It comes in thicknesses of 3/4" to, well the thickest I have seen is around 12".
Anyway he put this dingy together and decided he wanted to make it really water proof. So he applied many layers of the fiberglass and basecoat.
I wasn't there the day he launched but a buddy was and he said the guy had a very surprised look on his face when he got in water about three feet deep and it sank.
So apparently the weight to buoyancy ratio was a little off......

I think with any substrate that is used in a cabinet be it wood or some exotic composite, the cost to benefit ratio is going to be great with any composite.
And then figure in the resonance factor of materials.
For most smaller cabs the early amp makers used pine because it was available and cheap. Luckily it also turned out to be a pretty good wood for smaller cabs.

I know in the Hi Fi world that they usually want a material with zero deflection and resonance so it doesn't color the sound. As it turns out MDF or chip board does that pretty well on small to medium cabs.

But with guitar amps we kind of like a little coloration to the tone if it goes towards a beneficial resonance.

But when you get into the 4 x 12 size cabs you need strength as well as rigidity so the 13 ply voidless birch plywood works pretty well.

My father in law is quite an inventor and holds several patents having to do with pond filters as he is an avid Koi (fish) owner.
He designed a self cleaning filtration device that uses water pressure to run so no power is needed for the filter itself.
Also designed a biological water filter that uses bacteria to clean the water.

But he's about to turn 80 and is starting to slow down a little bit.
He is one smart fellow and I wish I lived closer to him because I know I learn a lot each time I talk with him.

[kec]

In the mid 90's ART came out with some small combo amps molded in CF. I saw them at NAMM back then, but never for sale. Maybe the response wasn't good. ART doesn't even list them in their discontinued products.

[img:300:408]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/ ... CF_Amp.jpg[/img]

I picked up a Switch Oscar that's all composite. It's not CF, it's Vibracell - whatever that is It's a pretty cool little guitar for cheap!

[img:400:550]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/ ... ck_big.jpg[/img]