What might cause this?
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
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iknowjohnny
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:10 am
- Location: los angeles
What might cause this?
So like i said in another post, i changed some things in the preamp of my high gain build and things really improved greatly. the harmonic complexity went thru the roof, which is what i was after. However, that was at low listening levels because i was in an apartment.Today i have the amp where i can crank it and when it is turned up to stage volumes those wonderful harmonics are gone for the most part. I have tried a larger cathode R on the PI which certainly helps, but where else might i look in trying to find a fix for this ?
Re: What might cause this?
Apartment level testing, it sure sucks doesn't it.
If you have a master volume after the tone stack/before the PI, this changes the sound a lot at really low levels. A 100K resistor from the wiper of the master volume to the PI cap can help to alleviate this somewhat.
I don't know if there is a true fix for this, amps react differently at volume than at whisper levels. When the power amp starts breathing and the speaker cone actually starts moving some air, the amp comes alive and reveals its true character. This puts the apartment builder in a very difficult situation, for all the testing should be done at volume, not the whisper levels. I feel your pain.
Other things happen too, like, that nice, smooth, compressed tone that is killer at low levels doesn't sound so hot at higher levels. That tone that sounded so killer when playing alone gets lost in a real band situation.
Sometimes, after hours of tinkering I have to step away and recalibrate my ears to remind myself just what I am going for and what I am trying to achieve. For example, a stock 2204 marshall circuit really won't pass the quiet apartment level tone test. They sound downright nasty at low levels, but when turned up and in a band situation, those amps are actually pretty good. That ice picky treble cuts through, the crunchy rhythms have the sizzle on top that isn't lost in the mix, etc.
Really, I am just rambling, don't know what else to tell you except that apartment levels are okay for building and functional testing but real tone testing has to come at real playing levels.
If you have a master volume after the tone stack/before the PI, this changes the sound a lot at really low levels. A 100K resistor from the wiper of the master volume to the PI cap can help to alleviate this somewhat.
I don't know if there is a true fix for this, amps react differently at volume than at whisper levels. When the power amp starts breathing and the speaker cone actually starts moving some air, the amp comes alive and reveals its true character. This puts the apartment builder in a very difficult situation, for all the testing should be done at volume, not the whisper levels. I feel your pain.
Other things happen too, like, that nice, smooth, compressed tone that is killer at low levels doesn't sound so hot at higher levels. That tone that sounded so killer when playing alone gets lost in a real band situation.
Sometimes, after hours of tinkering I have to step away and recalibrate my ears to remind myself just what I am going for and what I am trying to achieve. For example, a stock 2204 marshall circuit really won't pass the quiet apartment level tone test. They sound downright nasty at low levels, but when turned up and in a band situation, those amps are actually pretty good. That ice picky treble cuts through, the crunchy rhythms have the sizzle on top that isn't lost in the mix, etc.
Really, I am just rambling, don't know what else to tell you except that apartment levels are okay for building and functional testing but real tone testing has to come at real playing levels.
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iknowjohnny
- Posts: 1070
- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:10 am
- Location: los angeles
Re: What might cause this?
trust me, you're not telling me anything i don't know. I was a gigging musician for 10+ years and that old scenario about low levels at home and stage levels/tone is old hat to me. But with my marshalls i always got the harmonic complexity that i had at home at gigs. Yes, the tone changed, but as far as complexity that always stayed almost the same. Much closer than this, as this is like nite and day. But yes, i sure do know what you mean about tweaking in a low level enviornment. Stupid of me, but the way it improved (huge) i had to think some of that would hang at volume.
I'll give the series R a try between the wiper and cap. Thanks.
I'll give the series R a try between the wiper and cap. Thanks.