Tube amp build for particular application

[pjd3]

So as I gradually move forward on my "Tele style 28.625" scale baritone" I'm also considering an amp build to compliment this guitar.

This guitar is to be for big bold clean finger-style, only, in the vein of celtic, classical, (think Mike Hedges, Bensusan, Kottke, etc.. - I have no interest whatsoever in using this one for anything else - I have my other guitars for rock, blues, etc...

At first, I was going to just build a Fender Twin amp, figuring sure, big, super clean, dynamic and sparkly tone. And that would be true and probably would be really good BUT,
in listening around, I absolutely fell in love with the Bogner Shivas EL34 clean sounds that a few folks put up.

Unfortunately, it was a daunting task trying to nail down schematics for both the preamp and power supply in the same drawing. I have begun breadboarding the preamp to a Shiva based on a few schematics and drawings I've seen but feel like I'm flying by the seat of my pant in knowing firmly the versions (if they are even correct) of the schematics I'm looking at. Reading certain articles about the power supplies in these, I'm hearing discussions about elements in the Shiva power supplies that are not very typical, as you would find in Fenders or Marshalls.

So, my question is, considering the application of this guitar, that it is looking to be big, bold, lush and rich with alot of clean headroom (like the clean channel on many Bogner Shiva's), what amp would you choose to build to fulfill this mission if you weren't building a Bogner Shiva? The bogner struck me as having british type elements to its sound that I surprisingly thought was very desirable!

thanks for your input!
Best,
Phil D.,

[sluckey]

Sunn

[pjd3]

Hey Sluckey,

Just to let you know, I regularly gig with your 6V6 plexi amp. I excavated a Bogner Shiva, used the chassis and cabinet, and output transformer to build it into. Its giving me good gigs and good compliments so, Thanks!

I've definitely thought that Sunn may be a contender for this application but I've never actually plugged into one to experience its performance. Besides being the big bold clean amps with high headroom that I've heard they can be, can you offer any "dancing about architecture" descriptions of the tonal/feel elements of the amps and how they may compare or stand out in terms of their own unique elements? For instance, I found the Shiva to have a particular musical grit that was always there, one that I don't hear in the typical Fender. That grit seemed to be part of a complexity that made the notes of a chord both sound harmonically glued together but still somehow remain individual at the same time. Plus, the attacks had a certain sweetness to them that was a great introduction to every note played - whereas a Fender has a very detailed "pluck" to the attacks but comes across as a transparent transient as opposed to a slightly sweetened attack as in the Shiva. Marshall plexis can do that a bit also when not terribly over-driven.

thanks Sluckey, wondering it there is a particular Sunn model or topology that may lend itself more closely to that. And one more thing, of all the Shiva clips I listened to, (and there we many fairly well recorded) it was the Shivas with the EL34's that stood out more that the KT88 or 6L6 models. That surprised me but, I'm not an expert yet on the percentage of affect the different power tubes would have on any given amp.

Thanks for your patience with me!
Best,
Phil D

[sluckey]

https://el34world.com/charts/Schematics ... rum_ii.pdf

[pjd3]

Thank you Sluckey, taking a good look at that,

Best,
Phil D

[thetragichero]

i owned both a 200s (very similar to the schematic sluckey linked) and a sceptre and even though the 200s was meant as a bass amp the sceptre had more 'ooomph' in the low end (i consider a fender bass vi to be my main instrument so similar to your baritone) in my experience. this was with different tubes so not everything equal but maybe have a look at the more confusing sceptre/sentura/100s/190l schematic and have a play around with the differences (especially around the mid boost switch, 1k5/22uf on v1b and phase inverter) and see if those work for your needs

[Interstellareye]

I was going to just build a Fender Twin amp…

I’m new to building tube amps myself. I’ve been building pedals and audio electronics for more than a decade, but my interest only turned to tube guitar amps in the past couple years. This is just to say I’m not an experienced builder or expert.

With that intro aside, and If it’s ok for me to stray from topic, why would one want to build a Fender Twin or Sunn Spectrum when you can buy an original manufactured vintage Twin or Sunn, for close to same amount you’ll spend on parts (possibly lower quality parts)?

[thetragichero]

i don't know if you see what gear with the sunn badge on it is fetching these days (for example, i sold two old sun pa horns for like 200 bucks) but i doubt it'd be cheaper. and components are by far better than they used to be (tubes may not be but they're such a niche item that can only be produced in countries not so worried about environmental impact)

[JJH0906]

Hey all,

New to the for but appreciate what I've read through already.

I'm so on a clean amp hiding journey so it's great to learn from all the errors you've already made!

The Internet shows Sunn is owned by Fender, so maybe... Just get a Fender?

[thetragichero]

the sunn name is owned by fender (much like the acoustic amps name is owned by guitar center, only a cosmetic resemblance to the acoustic control corp amps of yore). the models we're speaking of were basically dynaco hi-fi amps in guitar amp form

[Interstellareye]

i don't know if you see what gear with the sunn badge on it is fetching these days

It’s true, I’m not as familiar with Sunn amps. But I’ve seen beautiful 1960s Twin Reverbs selling for well under a $1000. They must be one of the best values you can get in vintage amps. It would difficult to get the same quality parts at that price.