Cloning a circuit

[DeLuxe]

Not to get too philosophical but I had his thought today and so I'm going to share it. I have had the opportunity to play some really sweet vintage amps. Most of them have been fender. Tweeds, Browns, Blacks & Silvers. Many of these became classic circuits. They are iconic. But there is no doubt in my mind that the designer of each of those circuits did not actually build the ones that made history. Factory workers built them. Maybe the company that came up with the design hired the workers, etc. Maybe the company just bought the design. They paid their engineer, either way. All of that to say that there is real art to executing the build. I say this because there is so much clone hatred in this world and pressure for people to engineer and build something never seen before. Let's take a moment to appreciate the fact that great amps are made every day by people who know what they like and have the perseverance to learn the craft. There is no shame in learning from masters. It's all about the amp. If the amp is great, who cares where the circuit came from? Now days the builder has to be genius/innovator/scientist/engineer/marketing strategist/storekeeper/artist/player/etc before people will give any credit. Why not just shoot for being a great builder? Always getting better with every build. I'm just sayin'. My man Howard Dumble was everything we "want to be" and look how it turned out for him. He is hated as much as he is revered. Meanwhile somebody's grandmother built your '59 tweed deluxe but somehow never felt compelled to act like a weirdo.

[Leo_Gnardo]

somebody's grandmother built your '59 tweed deluxe but somehow never felt compelled to act like a weirdo.

Good thoughts DeLuxe. I've often mentioned to my customers the line workers at Fender, mostly women, mostly Mexican-American, that built the amps plus guitar pickups & wiring assemblies. They did a terrific job, probably happy to get 50 or 75 cents an hour back then, and lunch break undoubtedly was mighty tasty! (And they didn't get to be Mex-American by moving across the border. The border moved @ 1845 and the families there, stayed in place.)

One customer got to visit the Marshall factory in Milton Keynes. He was disappointed to report hi-school-age girls and pimple-faced boys doing the work. "Who do you think you'd find?" I asked. "Jimi Hendrix building the amps and Jimmy Page the boxes?" UK A-level and O-level exams sort out @ age 15-16 who's headed for the factory (unskilled & semi-skilled labor) from who goes to University (soon to be doctors, scientists, engineers & lawyers).

Our commercial gear may be invented and developed by persons whose names we know. But it's built by and large by the hard-workin' people, the salt of the earth, so raise a glass in thanks.

[dartanion]

Good discussion!!

Unfortunately these days most amps manufactured by the big dogs are pcb based with machine inserted components and wave soldered. Assembly is bolting everything to the chassis and plugging cables into their solderless connectors. It removes nearly any notion of what they are assembling, thus allowing for completely unskilled labor, so even lower wages. This is what the boutique builder has to contend with. The mentality of "Why do your amps cost so much?"

[Richie]

I'm sure most have seen some of these..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeerxAO3oRU

And the old video of the fender factory.. which the women working looked like they are dressed up for a date on the town,not a hair out of place. The guys that were painting the guitars, no shirts or safety equip..

But yeah, the marshall amp tour link, if you listen he tells how long it takes to make an amp.

Don't get me wrong, I've always loved marshall amps,or the older ones. But think about most all of the cooler amps or the ones most like, are all copied or mostly taken,or borrowed from another amp. The bassman, the Wem, the AFD, I believe the 5w,etc.. And as long as I have been on forums,i've never seen Marshall go after anyone making a clone!

On another note, I liked watching the time capsul video of Leo's G&L shop. The first time opened to view,everything as he left it,dust and all,nothing touched. You could tell he was still experimenting and working on stuff. A lot of the older test equip.

[Reeltarded]

Oh man that Marshall video makes me want to spend $4k on a 20w combo. Won't be long until they open the boxes from China and test to make sure the wires are connected before shipping them out to stores, and you know that marks a place in time.. a very short place just previous to QC being moved there as well. Fender already stopped making their stuff and nobody checks it out. It ships and GC pretty much rejects about 1/3rd. lmao

[Jack Hester]

The only two clones that I've built are a couple classics. 5C1 and 5C2. Champ and Princeton. Never got past the chassis', on either build. But, I liked them well enough that I built a combination, employing one SE power section, but feeding it with a pre-amp from both. What a nice little amp. Then, I went back and removed the little Princeton Tone control, added a cathode follower between the pre-amps and Bassman ('59) Tone Stack. And from there, into the power amp.

So, rather than a clone, it became an unique amp in itself. With a sound/tone that neither of the originals had. I had planned to use the same two pre-amps in front of a P-P power section, but never did.

My point is, we learn from all the amps that came before. Whether a total clone, or portions spliced together from each. Truth be known, those originals probably had their origins from the RCA or Radiotron manuals, like I've used, myself.

Jack

[Structo]

My point is, we learn from all the amps that came before. Whether a total clone, or portions spliced together from each. Truth be known, those originals probably had their origins from the RCA or Radiotron manuals, like I've used, myself.

Jack

Exactly.