Good choice for clean, full, balanced amp?

[Smokebreak]

I've been chasing a loud clean amp for the last two years and have been through 20-30 big name amps trying to get there. Now I'm broke and started building my own.

The closest I've gotten is a parallel triode straight into an AC30 PI and output through a Celestion Gold.

Another that came very close is a Dr z Galaxie or tweed super/LP twin.

What I've found is I never have enough power or clean volume when the band starts rockin'. You can always turn it down but you can't turn it up without clipping eventually.

Check out the Gibson GA95RTVT. I lucked into one recently and fixed it up with the help of PhilS. It's Seth Lover's answer to the twin back in the day, complete with interstage PI xformer, designed to stay super clean. Check the strange notch filters. http://www.el34world.com/charts/Schemat ... OLLO_2.pdf

[Reeltarded]

The transformers can be as big as a bowling ball. Doesn't matter.

Just build a Teletronix LA2 into a head with a quad of big tubes. Wow that's a damned good idea. 1176 and LA2 ate traditionally great clean guitar amps, just in the studio.

The thought of an LA2 as a clean channel or as a stage before the loop out kind of makes me itchy and maybe I am sweating a little. Daunting build that would be. It would blow away our ideas about sustain. heh

[Phil_S]

Well, that Apollo is an interesting thought. There is a whole line of these "whiteface" amps c. 1964-1966, sporting 6AQ5's, EL84's, 6L6's. I unsure if there are any with 6V6's. I own a Minuteman (EL84's) and I'd have to agree about clean tone. It is almost impossible to make it break up. I'd lose the notch filters. I think they contribute to the ice pick-like tone, though IIRC Smoke says his isn't like that, but it is a common complaint.

I built this a while back for a friend's daughter who asked for100% clean tone and loud enough to work with a drummer. http://home.comcast.net/~psymonds/Maxie-tone.htm I'd say it is about in the wattage zone requested. I calculated 38W at idle, but it is not as loud at my JTM45-ish amp. I think the cathodyne PI has a limiting effect, which in this particular case is what the player requested.

In case you aren't familiar, I employed a low loss tone stack known as the Roy Bean stack. Here http://www.freewebs.com/balijukka/roybeanstack.htm

If you choose another tone stack that causes signal loss, you may need another gain stage to compensate, or maybe you can use a floating paraphase PI a la Ampeg.

That reminds me, look at the original Ampeg amps. They were built with clean tone in mind.

You can always combine a cathode biased pair of 6L6's with just about any pre-amp and I'm thinking that will get you 30W. Find a clean preamp. There are lots, including the Twin.

[Leo_Gnardo]

The transformers can be as big as a bowling ball. Doesn't matter.

Just build a Teletronix LA2 into a head with a quad of big tubes. Wow that's a damned good idea. 1176 and LA2 ate traditionally great clean guitar amps, just in the studio.

The thought of an LA2 as a clean channel or as a stage before the loop out kind of makes me itchy and maybe I am sweating a little. Daunting build that would be. It would blow away our ideas about sustain. heh

While I was typing that I had a premonition that you would pipe up @ the LA2, since it is a fairly simple tube design. Just have to try to replicate its optical attenuator stage which was made with electro-luminescent film and who knows what kind of photocell, all jammed into an octal plug header.

Yes it would be a helluva thing to have tucked away inside an amp. Sort of a secret weapon, no? Mo' squeeze pleeze! Iron my signal flat like a starched handkerchief.

Have another grilled cheese, this time with the bacon. That oughta sustain you for a while & calm down the itchy & sweatiness. I agree if I do say so myself - it's an ear-attractive notion. Wonder why nobody's done it yet (that we know of.) Thanks for your response Miles!

[martin manning]

Here ya go; have at it: http://www.recproaudio.com/diy_pro_audi ... x_la2a.htm

[Reeltarded]

In limit mode it is a monster. I know one source for the cells and he's picky.

[Leo_Gnardo]

In limit mode it is a monster. I know one source for the cells and he's picky.

Picky about who he sells to or what? If I built my own I'd cobble together my own cell. Could also lean on compressor wizard Anthony de Maria. He's not too far away.

Back in the mid 80's when I was assisting a "big rock star" he complained his home studio LA2 wasn't sounding right anymore. Had a look at the manual & schemo & wound up replacing the cell. Manual said "they don't last forever." Big clue. At that time it was @ $40 and I think it came from UREI. Rocky Rockstar got happy after the new cell was plugged in.

At that time Power Station studio had 24 of 'em, one for each track on the tape recorder. I wonder if they kept their cells fresh. Doesn't matter - tons of hits from that studio.

[crbowman]

Here I am again with yet another ridonkulously expensive solution....
http://www.studioelectronics.biz/sunsho ... ail&p=1143

Or the short version, take your pick.
http://www.studioelectronics.biz/sunsho ... ail&p=1142

[Leo_Gnardo]

Here I am again with yet another ridonkulously expensive solution....

Nice find! Now in square boxes instead of cylinders. I'd love to undo the screws on one of those. Strip of EL panel and a photocell I'll bet, for nearly $200. Reminds me of the "upcharge" applied to Delco points sold in a box with a Jaguar sticker on it. Don't rush the bar boys, only two to a customer. Create the illusion of scarcity. Ain't that America?

[crbowman]

Rumor has it that JBL was selling the T4B cells until these guys bought out their entire stock of 'em and started selling them at a significant mark up.
Drip Electronics used to sell a complete LA2A PCB including the T4 cells for $165.00. Looks like they're out them currently, but they might still have some T4 cells lying around. Drip does a lot of cool kit stuff.
http://www.dripelectronics.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=31

[lpresnall]

Hey guys, just got time to revisit this thread and I do in fact have a lot of food for thought now. I suppose I'd drop the 30 watt limit - the reason I imposed it upon myself in the first place was that I have a set of transformers from a Peavey Classic 30 that I thought I might use. But since I like the idea of whomping out my own "Twin" type amp I may just buy another set of trannies. The California Dreamer is a real possibility. I emailed Chris at ax84 to see if there was any detailed documentation since the layout and BOM were really helpful on the other two ax84 projects I built. Turns out the Cali never was heavily documented or offered as a kit. If anyone here has built it and has info I'd sure covet a look at it! Thanks for all the discussion and advice here!

[Reeltarded]

In limit mode it is a monster. I know one source for the cells and he's picky.

Picky about who he sells to or what? If I built my own I'd cobble together my own cell. Could also lean on compressor wizard Anthony de Maria. He's not too far away.

Oops. Sorry lil late! Ex-SSL factory tech who keeps originals running for certain peeples. He always has a trick though. Gawd, you might even know him. KA....

If you can deal with sub-meter latency (I can. Small stages compared to the glory days I can be happy at over 3 meters plus latency) you could try the fake versions of all these. I have used MOTU and Nuendo in my guitar rig for over a decade as channelizer and insert splits for my amps. I use Waves, PSP Lexicon PCM things, Native instruments B4, Audio Damage Discord and AdVerb. Lighter than the rack + mixer and a cut down 122 that won't fit on the postage stamps called a stage with 2 cabs, heads, and a band. 3 A/B/Y and imma rock star.

Sneaky. Less likely to wipe the fire hazard called "house power" too. Whole band on a toaster circuit? lmao. If you love a brown sound just wait til you hear black.

You guys already own computers.. (poke.. poke poke poke)

[Smokebreak]

Hey guys, just got time to revisit this thread and I do in fact have a lot of food for thought now. I suppose I'd drop the 30 watt limit - the reason I imposed it upon myself in the first place was that I have a set of transformers from a Peavey Classic 30 that I thought I might use. But since I like the idea of whomping out my own "Twin" type amp I may just buy another set of trannies. The California Dreamer is a real possibility. I emailed Chris at ax84 to see if there was any detailed documentation since the layout and BOM were really helpful on the other two ax84 projects I built. Turns out the Cali never was heavily documented or offered as a kit. If anyone here has built it and has info I'd sure covet a look at it! Thanks for all the discussion and advice here!

The California Dreamer is a Fender blackface Deluxe, hacked to just the normal channel, without the reverb, reverb recovery stage, etc. . The full circuit designation is AB763. Paired with 2 6V6 it's a Deluxe. Paired with 2 6L6 it's a Super, or Vibro,etc. paired with 4 6L6 it's a Twin. Simply, more power=more clean . There are of course others, and different speaker configurations contribute to tone/feel, but the preamps are all the same. While the CD is not well documented,per se, the AB763 has been documented for decades Find a friend or someone selling a blackface or even SF on Craigslist, and plug into the normal channel. There's your Cali Dreamer! My point is that a Twin with no reverb is basically a really,really loud CD. Have you looked at the "building blocks" section of AX84? there's a clean preamp there. Mate it with a Twin power section and there's another option. If you are looking for a layout I'll have to search through my scribblings and see if I made one for the board. Otherwise, if you search the net for "AB763 no reverb" you may find some useful info. Hell I didn't even know I was building a CD till I was done with my AB763 no verb no vibe. Again, same thing. Hope this helps.

edit: whaddya know : http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9891.0

[fusionbear]

Another flavor to consider: I am almost finished converting my JTM45/100 into a JTM 45/36! I switched the PT so I can run a Quad of 6v6's instead...

Should give me about 36 watts...

[lpresnall]

[/quote]

The California Dreamer is a Fender blackface Deluxe, hacked to just the normal channel, without the reverb, reverb recovery stage, etc. . The full circuit designation is AB763. Paired with 2 6V6 it's a Deluxe. Paired with 2 6L6 it's a Super, or Vibro,etc. paired with 4 6L6 it's a Twin. Simply, more power=more clean . There are of course others, and different speaker configurations contribute to tone/feel, but the preamps are all the same. While the CD is not well documented,per se, the AB763 has been documented for decades Find a friend or someone selling a blackface or even SF on Craigslist, and plug into the normal channel. There's your Cali Dreamer! My point is that a Twin with no reverb is basically a really,really loud CD. Have you looked at the "building blocks" section of AX84? there's a clean preamp there. Mate it with a Twin power section and there's another option. If you are looking for a layout I'll have to search through my scribblings and see if I made one for the board. Otherwise, if you search the net for "AB763 no reverb" you may find some useful info. Hell I didn't even know I was building a CD till I was done with my AB763 no verb no vibe. Again, same thing. Hope this helps.

edit: whaddya know : http://www.el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9891.0[/quote]

Smoke, that's perfect! Thanks! I'm gonna get working on a BOM today!