Santana 1984 Fender Concert II Amp?

[anthony8i]

I've had one of those concerts. They take some dialing in, and can approach "something like Dumble" or "somehint like boogie"...

It's all dial, listen, play. dial, listen. dial some more....U get the pic.
Tell us what you need. More distortion, more sustain, thinner/fatter sound, link to a santana video, record your current gear for us.

Hell, I'll try to get some santana out my ots tomorrow and record it. And then some pedals into my bassman and EPI BD30

Thanks You ROCK!! I was messing with my concert! turned the mids, the gain, the presence, the volume, the master and treble high! the bass at 2 with the reverb around 4 and it almost got that tone from the lotus album; that song incident at neshabur was dam close! I was using my prs santana 25th, it gets way more gain than my MD? I was using the neck pickup and had the tone at 0! I was also using my Barber LTD drive, I had the volume around 9 its starts at 7 the tone was around 12 and drive around 8? also have you noticed that sometime it sounds too tube like? do you know what I mean? if you dont dial it in right the whole sounds way too tuby?? don't really know how to explain it? do you know why? also are these the correct settings for that early santana tone? could I make better adjustments?? thanks and appreciate your time!!

[anthony8i]

when I use the attenuator it keeps the hiss low plus I don't want it to be super loud since I live in a apartment.

Dude, if you are worried about hiss you are never going to find the Santana sound. Don't be timid. Let it soar. Also, I don't think you are going to find Santana sound at apartment levels. Santana's sound is not an apartment level sound. In fact, you have to hear and FEEL it. If you don't have enough volume to feel it, you are not going to get it, IMO. With your low volume, 'I'm afraid of the hiss" attitude, you wouldn't get Santana's sound out of Santana's rig. I am trying to hand you his sound, but you won't take it.

In case you don't know, Santana's sound is basically setup to sound good with single notes. You have to be smart about how you play with this kind of distortion. You can get away with double stops. but 3 or more notes at one time will always sound like shit when you are running full out like that. That is why I mentioned the bridge tone and volume settings in my post in the other thread. You have to work the guitar to get singing leads AND acceptable rhythm sounds. That is probably the hardest part of copping his sound.

sorry to bother again! can you please clarified on how to setup the amp? your saying turn the volume high, the mids high, treble high, presence high and bass low? can you also tell me what is the difference between the master and actual volume? basically i'm asking what needs to be high or low? does my pedal need to have similar settings to the amp? thanks

[tubelectron]

anthony8i,

I still have 10 amps at home (SF fenders, VOX, DIY ones, etc...) not to mention the ones I stupidly sold in the past (Hiwatt Custom 50, VOX AC30TB).

Only one has the "instant Santana sound" without tweaking : it's my MKIIA. Despite what is written in some posts before, with it I can ALSO have a good Santana sound at appartment level, sorry - well, it's better if it is louder, obviously, but conversely to many amps, the MKIIA is "tone-conservative"... I mean, if you increase volume, the sounds character still stay the same, just louder and louder. But you need to have an EVM12L speaker in it for that.

Of course, if you don't need the dual-channel operation of a MKIIA, the best choice would be a MKI Hun-Rev (100W Rev) with an ALTEC 417-8H speaker, like Mr Santana himself on it's great albums. I tried the 417-8H in my MKIIA and made A/B comparisons :

[img:640:480]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/133570IMG8533.jpg[/img]
[img:800:600]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/844378IMG8565.jpg[/img]
[img:640:480]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/344570IMG8546.jpg[/img]

The ALTEC 417-8H is a very good-sounding speaker, more low-midrangey, and with a little "gritt" in the top-highs due to its aluminium central dome. It also has a nice breakup, and it's certainly the best choice to play in the Santana's tone at LOUD volume, much less at appart. Volume.

I preferred to stay with the Electro-Voice EVM12L because of it's much later breakup, it's huge efficiency (nearly + 4 to 6db more than the ALTEC !) and power (200W versus 100W), and the "Hi-Fi" kind of purity that allow the EV1M2L to deliver the same great deep and excellent sound at ANY level.

Another good surprising alternative is the Legend 1218 from Eminence, a kind of compromise between the ALTEC 417-8H and the EVM12L, but much cheaper and lighter (EVM12L = 8.6kg, Legend 1218 = 3.8kg). The Celestion Vintage 30 I Also tested was discarded quickly, only behaving like an awful PittBull, compared to the three others...

So would another amp be able to have that Santana sound ? Maybe... But for sure, you will need to search the good configuration of settings, if you ever find it !

When pushed, my SF Princeton Reverb has some Santana possibilities in it, but I never achieved a satisfactory Santana sound with an ENGL Screamer 50, a VHT Pittbull, a Rivera 30-12 or M-60, a Mesa Nomad or Rectifier, that I had in hands for service, among many others... All of them are good amps, but none can really compete with that special smooth overdriven and sustained "Santana" lead tone of my MKIIA with my ES-335.

It's a matter of taste, of course, but I try to stay objective as far as I can : if like me yo search that peculiar sound character, then the MKI and IIA are really to be considered...

A+!

[anthony8i]

anthony8i,

I still have 10 amps at home (SF fenders, VOX, DIY ones, etc...) not to mention the ones I stupidly sold in the past (Hiwatt Custom 50, VOX AC30TB).

Only one has the "instant Santana sound" without tweaking : it's my MKIIA. Despite what is written in some posts before, with it I can ALSO have a good Santana sound at appartment level, sorry - well, it's better if it is louder, obviously, but conversely to many amps, the MKIIA is "tone-conservative"... I mean, if you increase volume, the sounds character still stay the same, just louder and louder. But you need to have an EVM12L speaker in it for that.

Of course, if you don't need the dual-channel operation of a MKIIA, the best choice would be a MKI Hun-Rev (100W Rev) with an ALTEC 417-8H speaker, like Mr Santana himself on it's great albums. I tried the 417-8H in my MKIIA and made A/B comparisons :

[img:640:480]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/133570IMG8533.jpg[/img]
[img:800:600]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/844378IMG8565.jpg[/img]
[img:640:480]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/344570IMG8546.jpg[/img]

The ALTEC 417-8H is a very good-sounding speaker, more low-midrangey, and with a little "gritt" in the top-highs due to its aluminium central dome. It also has a nice breakup, and it's certainly the best choice to play in the Santana's tone at LOUD volume, much less at appart. Volume.

I preferred to stay with the Electro-Voice EVM12L because of it's much later breakup, it's huge efficiency (nearly + 4 to 6db more than the ALTEC !) and power (200W versus 100W), and the "Hi-Fi" kind of purity that allow the EV1M2L to deliver the same great deep and excellent sound at ANY level.

Another good surprising alternative is the Legend 1218 from Eminence, a kind of compromise between the ALTEC 417-8H and the EVM12L, but much cheaper and lighter (EVM12L = 8.6kg, Legend 1218 = 3.8kg). The Celestion Vintage 30 I Also tested was discarded quickly, only behaving like an awful PittBull, compared to the three others...

So would another amp be able to have that Santana sound ? Maybe... But for sure, you will need to search the good configuration of settings, if you ever find it !

When pushed, my SF Princeton Reverb has some Santana possibilities in it, but I never achieved a satisfactory Santana sound with an ENGL Screamer 50, a VHT Pittbull, a Rivera 30-12 or M-60, a Mesa Nomad or Rectifier, that I had in hands for service, among many others... All of them are good amps, but none can really compete with that special smooth overdriven and sustained "Santana" lead tone of my MKIIA with my ES-335.

It's a matter of taste, of course, but I try to stay objective as far as I can : if like me yo search that peculiar sound character, then the MKI and IIA are really to be considered...

A+!

thanks for all that great info! will save me lots of time and money trying to figure the amp thing! really apreciate your time and input! I will find me that MKIIA for sure! btw if you happen to run into one please let me know! sense you know your amps; what settings would you reccomend for my Concert II?? volume, gain, master, treble, bass, mids, reverb and presence are the knobs im working with. I was messing with it and got super close to the lotus album; I was jamming to incident at neshabur; one of my favs!! i had the tone rolled off on the guitar; I was using the neck pickup and pretty much had all the knobs on the amp turned up while the bass was really low. I metioned earlier some times if you have too much it sounds way tube like? kind of bad distortion; it seems its too much for the speakers? but there 50 watts each? well thanks again!! viva Santana!

[tubelectron]

thanks for all that great info! will save me lots of time and money trying to figure the amp thing! really apreciate your time and input! sense you know your amps; what settings would you reccomend for my Concert II?? volume, gain, master, treble, bass, mids, reverb and presence are the knobs im working with. I was messing with it and got super close to the lotus album; I was jamming to incident at neshabur; one of my favs!! i had the tone rolled off on the guitar; I was using the neck pickup and pretty much had all the knobs on the amp turned up while the bass was really low.

I wouldn't recommend any setting on your Concert II, as I do not know this amp very much...

It's a different amp, for sure, but on my MKIIA, I have :

V T B M M1 LD LM --- RV PR
7 7 5 5 2-8 7-8 2.8 3-4 5-8

All volumes and tone at max opening on the Gibson ES-335 or Hagstrom Viking guitar, N,B,N+B PU depending on the situation. It works on clean, on lead, on boost operation.

I metioned earlier some times if you have too much it sounds way tube like? kind of bad distortion; it seems its too much for the speakers? but there 50 watts each?

Sorry - I don't see clearly what you mean...

I will find me that MKIIA for sure! btw if you happen to run into one please let me know!

Depending on your location, the offer is variable. I am located in France, and the offer is zero... I bought mine in Germany, via eBay. I strongly suggest you to have a look on it regularly - you should find a MKI, IIA or B, even much easily if your are in USA, of course.

A+!

[anthony8i]

thanks for all that great info! will save me lots of time and money trying to figure the amp thing! really apreciate your time and input! sense you know your amps; what settings would you reccomend for my Concert II?? volume, gain, master, treble, bass, mids, reverb and presence are the knobs im working with. I was messing with it and got super close to the lotus album; I was jamming to incident at neshabur; one of my favs!! i had the tone rolled off on the guitar; I was using the neck pickup and pretty much had all the knobs on the amp turned up while the bass was really low.

I wouldn't recommend any setting on your Concert II, as I do not know this amp very much...

It's a different amp, for sure, but on my MKIIA, I have :

V T B M M1 LD LM --- RV PR
7 7 5 5 2-8 7-8 2.8 3-4 5-8

All volumes and tone at max opening on the Gibson ES-335 or Hagstrom Viking guitar, N,B,N+B PU depending on the situation. It works on clean, on lead, on boost operation.

I metioned earlier some times if you have too much it sounds way tube like? kind of bad distortion; it seems its too much for the speakers? but there 50 watts each?

Sorry - I don't see clearly what you mean...

I will find me that MKIIA for sure! btw if you happen to run into one please let me know!

Depending on your location, the offer is variable. I am located in France, and the offer is zero... I bought mine in Germany, via eBay. I strongly suggest you to have a look on it regularly - you should find a MKI, IIA or B, even much easily if your are in USA, of course.

A+!

thanks! I found a mk1 reissue! http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg/2750367807.html. what dou you think is the major difference on an original Mk1 versus the Reissue? what do you think? should I buy it? or hold off? thanks you been super helpfull!!

[tubelectron]

thanks! I found a mk1 reissue! http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg/2750367807.html. what dou you think is the major difference on an original Mk1 versus the Reissue? what do you think? should I buy it? or hold off? thanks you been super helpfull!!

I never had in hands a MKI RI for the moment, but this amp is reputed to be the worth of it's predecessor, having some additional features intended to achieve the legendary sound of the MKI at lower volumes.

Moreover, it's a recent and improved instrument over a classical MKI, so if you are not very used to tube circuits troubleshooting and repairing, this would be very advantageous for you, indeed.

I have been told by my (wealthy) friend which owns an original MKI that the RI models are more "consistent in tone" than the originals. I mean : they are more refined to follow the best of the MKI original tone, which were known to be quite different from one unit to another one (as the MKIIA was, to a lesser extent, too).

It would not be the same about the 1st RI of the MKI, which was called "Son Of Boogie" (SOB) : this one seems to have a questionable reputation, and is probably not equal to the MKI RI of nowadays.

Sorry, the link you've posted doesn't work - but nonetheless, considering your request about Santana's tone and your "tube amp" abilities, I think that a recent Boogie MKI RI is a good choice for you.

A+!

[anthony8i]

thanks! I found a mk1 reissue! http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/msg/2750367807.html. what dou you think is the major difference on an original Mk1 versus the Reissue? what do you think? should I buy it? or hold off? thanks you been super helpfull!!

I never had in hands a MKI RI for the moment, but this amp is reputed to be the worth of it's predecessor, having some additional features intended to achieve the legendary sound of the MKI at lower volumes.

Moreover, it's a recent and improved instrument over a classical MKI, so if you are not very used to tube circuits troubleshooting and repairing, this would be very advantageous for you, indeed.

I have been told by my (wealthy) friend which owns an original MKI that the RI models are more "consistent in tone" than the originals. I mean : they are more refined to follow the best of the MKI original tone, which were known to be quite different from one unit to another one (as the MKIIA was, to a lesser extent, too).

It would not be the same about the 1st RI of the MKI, which was called "Son Of Boogie" (SOB) : this one seems to have a questionable reputation, and is probably not equal to the MKI RI of nowadays.

Sorry, the link you've posted doesn't work - but nonetheless, considering your request about Santana's tone and your "tube amp" abilities, I think that a recent Boogie MKI RI is a good choice for you.

A+!

thanks again! the price for this mk1 reisssue is $875 looks like this! yeah I don't know about the link? For Sale:

2004 Mesa Boogie Mark I Reissue, all original, good condition, out of production, includes original dust cover and casters for easy transport - more info here: http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/ ... issue.html - $875

But hey thanks again and ill let you know what happens! really appreciate all the help!!

[tubelectron]

For sure, Anthony - don't let it go - nice amp at correct price. No doubt : it will meet your Santana's expectations way better than any kit, and without the hassles of a vintage amp if you're not trained to service them.

A+!