I recently fixed one of these amps and I couldn't get over the ordinary tone from this amp.
The amp blew a choke up, this itself caused me to wonder about this amp as the choke was intended for a Deluxe or a Vibrolux. It was the correct choke as specified by the circuit.
Is there any secret to getting a good tone from these amps or does Ford choose the worse sounding Twin amp to prove what a good guitarist he is?
Mark
Did you ever see RF when he came to Australia ?
1st time The Dumble nice tone great gig.
2nd time no Dumble 2 red knob twins and Nathan Cavaleri, didn't sound very good and the performance was not up to scratch. I have not seen him since.
I think at the time the red knob twin was about the best you could get in a loud consistent sounding hire amp.
It is a shame something can't be done for them. The iron looks good, the sound of both the clean tones and distorted tones is below par. The reverb is very ordinary too!
stelligan wrote:I own a red knob Rivera era Super 60 head. I quite like the clean tone and with pedals on top. The OD channel - stank ass.......
Red knob and Rivera are mutually exclusive. Paul and I met when he was 19 and I was 16. It's immaterial to me, whether you like his amps or not...I like to keep thing accurate w/regard to his work. He was the director of marketing at Fender....not R&D.
For example, the only 'Rivera era' amp he takes credit for is the Super Champ. He and Ed Jahns seemed to have got into a pissing match over the rest of the II series. Paul's a decent guy, though not the TAG sort. Another example...he knew what was in the early 80's dumbles, but didn't copy them....all the worse for those amps, but he didn't want to copy them.
jaysg wrote:For example, the only 'Rivera era' amp he takes credit for is the Super Champ. He and Ed Jahns seemed to have got into a pissing match over the rest of the II series.
It has always been interesting to me that the *only* circuit difference between the Super Champ and the Princeton Reverb II was the phase inverter. SC has a cathodyne, PR II has a LTP. Exactly zero other differences.
Wife: How many amps do you need?
Me: Just one more...
Mark wrote:I recently fixed one of these amps and I couldn't get over the ordinary tone from this amp.
The amp blew a choke up, this itself caused me to wonder about this amp as the choke was intended for a Deluxe or a Vibrolux. It was the correct choke as specified by the circuit.
Is there any secret to getting a good tone from these amps or does Ford choose the worse sounding Twin amp to prove what a good guitarist he is?
Mark, I guess you are right, that Ford played the red knob twin simply because it was the current fender twin at rental companies back in the early 90's.
to share my live experience (as audience) at a Robben Ford concert in Copenhagen, where he used this amp with a couple of tube screamers.
The Red knobs have a reputation of being relatively shitty amps, but man Robben sounded great using one.
By the way, if you take a glance at one of the RF videos where he gives a walk through his gear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzVq9JsBLsI ,
he states that if you cannot get your hands on a Dumble amplifier, the second best choice would be a Fender Twin.....
I had a red knob twin back in the day and it was a very average or below average sounding amp. I swapped out the speakers for some vintage 30's and it made a HUGE difference. That being said, I sold the amp because it was just too heavy to lug around.
I thought on that You Tube video I remember Robben saying if you can't get a Dumble then a Twin Reverb or two and the Zen will work?
I don't remember him referring to the red knob Twin.
Structo wrote:I thought on that You Tube video I remember Robben saying if you can't get a Dumble then a Twin Reverb or two and the Zen will work?
I don't remember him referring to the red knob Twin.
True, true he's jsut referring to a fender twin amp, not a specific model.
Last edited by bluesfendermanblues on Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Somewhere around the mid 80's I was doing quite a few rogue 1 nighters all over the place..Most if not just about all rental companies had em at the time..Most likely since it was the predecessor of the early Twin which was the staple dafacto rental amp the decade before..Everybody knew the Twin and sound companies loved them for there durability reliability utilitarian attributes ..After the introduction of the red knob I think they blindly carried on the tradition from the earlier Twins..I used these on quite a few occasions since the only other alternative was the Roland Jazz Chorus..(Ever try to play the blues through one of those...Ahhh yeah).I would guess this is how Robben was introduced to them and maybe at some point found one that he liked and picked up a couple for those touch and go gigs or for extra stage splash
I would still think he would have had it at some point somewhat modified by Howie or someone else..All I can say is thank god for the pedal board otherwise those nights would have been a little rough...
Well at one point, I don't know if it is in that interview he was saying the the Dumble wouldn't make anymore trans-Atlantic trips so when he plays in Europe he rents the Twins.
He does mention that when he does use a Twin Reverb the Zen is what makes it work.
I think he finally realized the value of his Dumbles and is more careful with them.
Can you imagine having your go to amp become so valuable that you are afraid to take it anywhere?
Even though it is undoubtedly insured and serial numbers recorded, I can only guess that some conniving SOB would love to get his grubby hands on one.
The thing about the red knob Twin is that it isn't in any way dynamic. The last twins I played was a Blonde Twin and a Kendrick tweed twin. They sounded surprisingly similar and they responded really well to my touch.
Looking at the circuit, I think something went wrong around the reverb stage and effects loop should only be engaged when something is plugged into the loop. I think you'd have to go through the O/D channel stage by stage to work out what to change and where.
As far as valves go for the red knob twin. I'd say something sturdy like =C= 6L6's as there is 480+VDC on the plates. Not at all sure what to use for the many 12AX7 stages?
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