Opinions sought on FX units that like D'lators.

[Guitarman18]

Having recently completed my D'lator, I realise that my existing FX units are a major source of tone loss, so I am looking to get a new FX unit and would appreciate any input and guidance anyone has to offer on the subject. I've been looking at the TC G-Major, but am wondering what other units are out there that are worth consideration. The 2290 is unfortunately a long way out of reach financially ( ), however if that is the only thing on the delay front worth considering then I'll wait (and wait and wait and wait) until funds permit.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you may have on this.

Cheers,

Paul.

[glasman]

Look for units that keep the main signal in an analog path. This minimizes the tone suck.

There are several that will do the job.

Of course the TC2290, as you said out of reach of most.

Rocktron Intellifex - ~$150 used.
Rocktron Xpression - ~300 to 350 New.

I know Mr Ayan really likes the Intellifex. I just purchased an Xpression, but have yet to have time to try it out.

These are the one I know of, but I have sure there are many others.

Gary

[drz400]

Having recently completed my D'lator, I realise that my existing FX units are a major source of tone loss, so I am looking to get a new FX unit and would appreciate any input and guidance anyone has to offer on the subject. I've been looking at the TC G-Major, but am wondering what other units are out there that are worth consideration. The 2290 is unfortunately a long way out of reach financially ( ), however if that is the only thing on the delay front worth considering then I'll wait (and wait and wait and wait) until funds permit.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you may have on this.

Cheers,

Paul.

get a small line mixer if you are using Delay and time based effects
Then it wont really matter what you use.

[angelodp]

Which line mixer do you recommend.

a

[drz400]

Which line mixer do you recommend.

a

Really depends on what you need, if it is mono and one effect the first two are fine. Stereo or you want a first and second mix so you can have reverb on delay with 2 different units option 3 or 4 will be better.
Simple mono mixers
http://www.psionicaudio.com/main/mixers.htm
http://www.suhrguitars.com/tonetools.aspx
Dual Stereo Line Mixers
http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/line_mixer.htm
Rane SM26 you can find on ebay

I prefer the first 3 since they are more simple and less = more
It isnt hard to make one yourself though, just might not be worth it.
It is just a simple summing amp , +-15 V supply will give you the most headroom.

[angelodp]

Does the Suhr unit interface with a Dlator or is that redundant.

a

[drz400]

Does the Suhr unit interface with a Dlator or is that redundant.

a

Sure they all do, they are just summing circuits they turn a series loop into a true mix loop, and as long as the driving impedance (of the loop) can feed 50K (which the Dumbleator can) there are no worry's. They would however NOT replace a Dumbleator
The Psionic and MiniMix are unity gain so what you put in is what you get out.

[Bob-I]

Andy Fuchs had a really great sounding setup at the NJ amp show. Not sure how he did it but he drove the effect out of the amp's loop, then the effect went to a stereo power amp into 2 1x12" cabs. The reverb was HUGE and not at all overpowering.

I keep saying I'm gonna try this with my old Crown DC150, now where did I put that old thing?

[stelligan]

Andy Fuchs had a really great sounding setup at the NJ amp show. Not sure how he did it but he drove the effect out of the amp's loop, then the effect went to a stereo power amp into 2 1x12" cabs. The reverb was HUGE and not at all overpowering.

I keep saying I'm gonna try this with my old Crown DC150, now where did I put that old thing?

This is my preferred method as well - depending on stage size. I take my dumbleator's send out to the effects pedalboard and return it to either 1(mono) or 2 (stereo) tech 21 power engines. Same can be done with another amp's power amp in jack - like a Hot Rod Deluxe, for example. Big 3D sound either way and doesn't mess with the main amps tone.
http://brownnote.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=946

[Guitarman18]

drz400, thats a great way to go for a one amp setup. That way, it would preserve every benefit of using a D'lator without having the FX unit unravelling all of it's beauty. I had my suspicions that something like this was possible. A single channel valve mixer would surely appeal to the purists. (anyone know of any schems? ). dogears mentioned the switchblade in a previous thread, but again that is a little out of my league, I'm afraid.
I also like the idea of a multiple amp setup. Having the ability to take a feed off the pre-amp, supplying a wet signal to an external power-amp whilst keeping the the original power-amp dry sounds like a great justification as to why HAD kept the loop external. I've recently added 'pre out/power in' jacks to a couple of my older SF Fender amps, so 'reamping' the effected signal is easily do-able. Initially I thought it would be useful to have signal access to each of my amps so that I can hear how one power section compares to another, but also try different pre-amp/power-amp configurations without having to rebuild half the amp, only to find that I may have preferred it before all the hard work. I find myself firmly in the 'keep the loop external' camp. . Apologies to the internal loop guys but my one D'lator can stretch an awful long way.

Many thanks guys, that is certainly food for thought.

Cheers,

Paul.

[drz400]

drz400, thats a great way to go for a one amp setup. That way, it would preserve every benefit of using a D'lator without having the FX unit unravelling all of it's beauty. I had my suspicions that something like this was possible. A single channel valve mixer would surely appeal to the purists. (anyone know of any schems? ). dogears mentioned the switchblade in a previous thread, but

Go to Aikenamps.com
Tech section and look for
Designing Single-Stage Inverting Feedback Amplifiers
Also known as a plate follower
It can be used as tube mix with a virtual ground which is covered at the bottom of the page.
It can work very nicely, it is also covered by London Power in his "ultimate loop" which I dont think has enough return gain (because you are using it as a plate follower you loose gain)

More efficient would be the good old tweed mixer found in the front of the Low power fender Tweed Twin but that will cost a whole tube for the mix and is inverting.

However ! A good opamp mixer will kick it's ass in transparency and isolation in the mix buss which is important, also much easier to make it non inverting. I have tried both and there is really no comparison. Tubes are good for when you want to color tone, not for when you dont.

[rob@tele]

Hi you all,

This is my first post on the forum. I have been reading and learning a lot, thank you all for the info that is on the forum.

I have very good experience with a TUT loop (serial) and a TC GMajor and a TC Gsystem. My advise is to go for a serial loop as the present state of the art FX units are very very transparent. A parallel loop requires the FX unit to have no dry sound as it will return with the loops dry signal, but with a small delay (A/D D/A conversion delay) causing sound coloration. So go for a serial loop (proper impedance matching, so TUT, Dlator or similar) and buy a decent FX unit like TC or similar.

Best regards,

Rob

[Steven_nl]

I

m not a gearhead like some of you guys.
I have a simple TC Electronics G-Sharp (Cheap!! and 24 bit A/D conversion) and a Kleinulator. I can hardly tell the difference between wet and bypassed signal. Tending to use some delay instead of reverb.
Steven

[Guitarman18]

drz400 Wrote:

However ! A good opamp mixer will kick it's ass in transparency and isolation in the mix buss which is important, also much easier to make it non inverting. I have tried both and there is really no comparison. Tubes are good for when you want to color tone, not for when you dont.

I can see what you mean about 'tubes are good for when you want to color the tone', so I'm going to check out the psionic and Suhr units which seem to fit the brief perfectly.

Cheers,

Paul.

PS. If anyone knows of any really good opamp schems which use something like the AD826 as in the psion, that would be really helpful. I imagine they are relatively simple devices internally.

[drz400]

Hi you all,

This is my first post on the forum. I have been reading and learning a lot, thank you all for the info that is on the forum.

I have very good experience with a TUT loop (serial) and a TC GMajor and a TC Gsystem. My advise is to go for a serial loop as the present state of the art FX units are very very transparent. A parallel loop requires the FX unit to have no dry sound as it will return with the loops dry signal, but with a small delay (A/D D/A conversion delay) causing sound coloration. So go for a serial loop (proper impedance matching, so TUT, Dlator or similar) and buy a decent FX unit like TC or similar.

Best regards,

Rob

Yes Group delay can be an issue in digital processors
However it is the same issue that would happen adding the effects in at the mixing board, studio or live. Usually the Delay/reverb is much lower than the dry signal and the phase shifts don't mean anything. If you are not needing series effects from your unit it will sound much better going the mix route. Even with TC stuff, I use a M-one have been through a tone of effects. Even when I had an Eventide H3000 there was no comparison, the Mix option always sounded cleaner and tighter. Only thing that sounds better is a Wet dry Wet.