Dumble vs Bruno

[Tdale]

A guy I sort of know, got a Dumble made for him years ago, because he and Dumble had a common aquaintance (bad spelling?) that got them in touch (by mail only). He signed the contract and got the Dumble.

He then sold it to a swedish guitarplayer.

Anyway, he told me that they opened it, but the preamp was covered with goo. He said, however, that even if the amp sounded great, with fantastic dynamics and sustain, the Bruno Super-100 he has in his store now, sound better, in his opinion..

I'm trying to find out more about this particular Dumble, but it's interesting to actually talk to someone who has owned a Dumble, and can compare to other amps.

Tommy

[ElectronAvalanche]

Sounds suspiciously like a guy named Tag!

I have never heard a Bruno in person......

Cheers,

Dominik

[Tdale]

Not sure about that Tag comment... can you explain for a Norwegian?


Tommy

[ElectronAvalanche]

Hi Tdale,

sort of like an insider joke...

Tag is somebody from The Gear Page and he swears on Bruno amps.

Cheers,

Dominik

[dogears]

I played 3 Super 100 amps. Two of them were buzzy and I did not like at all..... THe third was a new one at Ultra Sound. It sounded sweet and singing. However, when I wanted to hear it again (same day an hour later), something was really worng. Probably the speaker cab. Horrid nasty stuff. Like a blown speaker.

It is understandable that Tony should make a good clone. After all he has been through every inch of Gene's tan Dumble (the holy grail one) in an effort to totally clone it.

[ayan]

IIt is understandable that Tony should make a good clone. After all he has been through every inch of Gene's tan Dumble (the holy grail one) in an effort to totally clone it.

I am not sure what to think about that. Applying that type of logic, a few of the amp companies that make clones should have near perfect sounding amps because they've had the benefit of having certainly more than one real amp to use as a benchmark. Yet, to me that is not the case with any of them, and I have enough second, third.... "nth" opinions that agree with my own, so I know I'm not alone in thinking this way.

In the end, in a simple mind like mine, it all boils down to two things: (1) If you want to clone something to a T, copy it and try to resist thinking you've outsmarted the master by taking "creative detours" -- no single commercial company makes a dead-on replica of a Dumble. In Bruno's case, I believe he uses steel chassis, for example; (2) Amp makers can't hide their DNA, period. If you have "good genes," the "coloration" you will add to the amp -- by virtue of being the one who cuts the wires, solders the bugger, etc. -- will probably be desireable. If your genes are not so compatible with the original vibe of the amp, results may not be as good.

Cheers,

Gil

[dogears]

Yeah, but..... I have heard that Tony has really side by side tried to copy the sound of that amp. According to Tag that is.... Not saying he did, but I know if the Tan Dumble resided at my house, I would be able to get in the tonal ballpark, especially with a half decade of detailed study, experimentation, etc.....

IIt is understandable that Tony should make a good clone. After all he has been through every inch of Gene's tan Dumble (the holy grail one) in an effort to totally clone it.

I am not sure what to think about that. Applying that type of logic, a few of the amp companies that make clones should have near perfect sounding amps because they've had the benefit of having certainly more than one real amp to use as a benchmark. Yet, to me that is not the case with any of them, and I have enough second, third.... "nth" opinions that agree with my own, so I know I'm not alone in thinking this way.

[ElectronAvalanche]

I hope you don´t mind me chiming in here.

I have never heard nor even seen a Bruno amp in person.

I had the luck to play some Dumbles and these differed from one another vastly.

One Dumble (#004) was very unsinspiring sounding in the beginning, but it started to really shine after a while. This amp had the "Starve" switch, which I think does imbalance the PI. The overall level dropped when flicking that switch and the amp was almost Marshallesque in it´s sound. Very sweet..

Then there was a Dumble ODS Reverb that was very tiresome. Not at all my taste.

And the famed 150W ODS that was simply phenomenal. This amp has a completely different Power Amp Section (Dumbleland?) and was a Killer amp.

Some of the amps I built myself were very nice from the beginning, some others required quite some tweaking.

I have found that the OT makes quite a difference. Be reminded that Dumble seemed to have used (as far as I humbly know) a vast variety of OTs: some Music Man OTs, some OT that looked like it came from a Sunn amp, Bassman OT, Triad etc.... I used a Dynaco MKIII once and it was a killer sound. In my latest build I used a Hammond 1650 and it sounds great to my ears.

I started to use silver coated wire somewhere along the line, because I thought this would make a difference, started to use different caps, different resistor material.

And yet, my very first Dumble Preamp (think Dumble HRM with Clean with Skyliner and and seperate 70s value OD and Clean, all switchable, with Dumbleator Loop) was the best sounding, although I used WIMA caps and generic metal film throughout.

When I rebuilt that thing with "proper" caps and resistors it lost quite some magic.

Every clone sounds different and thus I have to agree with Gil that every Cloners company amp will sound different as well.

I have heard that some TR amps (never played one) do not sound at all like the grail.

Which leads me to another can of worms, which I will try to keep closed for now.......

Maybe it is the sum of all things. Maybe some things are not foreseeable in these amps. One could start with the best material and still end with a mediocre sound.

Tweaking to the speaker used, the guitar used, the playing technique is ever so important.

A friend of mine once played one of my amps and all of a sudden, it was not at all sounding like a Dumble. The touch, the softness of the attack is important to MAKE a Dumble amp/clone sound like a Dumble.

Enough ramblings from my side

Cheers,

Dominik

[ElectronAvalanche]

Another thing I would like to add:

What is the "Dumble" sound?

To me it is this:

Clean:

There is some sort of bow effect on the low notes, like a cello. You have some very unique and pleasing paper sound (in the good sense) on the low notes.

The highs are glassy, never shrill, like some round cold glas surface, yet it mixes with the organic bow effect of the low notes.

OD:

Same characteristics as the Clean but with some zing added. No buzz, but some slight fuzz on the notes, the great clarity of the bass notes with some wooden character to it. Sometimes it seems like the Bass notes are still clean and only the higher notes have some breakup.

Turning back the volume on the guitar gives you the Clean sound again.

I think that is the most important thing:

The OD starts off where the Clean ends. So with the OD set low, one should have the same sound as in the Clean. The OD does not take away the quality of the Clean sound, only adds to it.

Cheers,

Dominik

[Funkalicousgroove]

Here is a shot of the bruno guts, sorry about the angle.

[Normster]

Here is a shot of the bruno guts, sorry about the angle.

That looks awefully familiar.

A friend of mine once played one of my amps and all of a sudden, it was not at all sounding like a Dumble. The touch, the softness of the attack is important to MAKE a Dumble amp/clone sound like a Dumble.

Sooo true!!! I was having this very conversation with Scott a few days ago. The amp, not just the guitar, must be played.

[ayan]

Yeah, but..... I have heard that Tony has really side by side tried to copy the sound of that amp. According to Tag that is.... Not saying he did, but I know if the Tan Dumble resided at my house, I would be able to get in the tonal ballpark, especially with a half decade of detailed study, experimentation, etc.....

He may have tried to tweak components types and values, but it seems he decided the chassis material, dimensions and layout played no significant role, as he didn't "carbon copy" that aspect of the amp.

Gil

[Tdale]

Gil, I see people recommending the layout that you and dominik posted... The only problem is that I can't seem to find it..

Is it a ODS or ODS reverb?... would you mind pointing me in the right direction?

I saw a post where Normster thanked you, and posted a layout on his own.but is that the one?

Tommy

[ElectronAvalanche]

Dear Tommy,

there is no real finished layout. Gil and I just posted the pics of our boards in this thread. See above pics.

I am afraid you will have to take the plunge and sketch it out....

Cheers,

Dominik

[ayan]

Gil, I see people recommending the layout that you and dominik posted... The only problem is that I can't seem to find it..

Is it a ODS or ODS reverb?... would you mind pointing me in the right direction?

I saw a post where Normster thanked you, and posted a layout on his own.but is that the one?

Tommy

As Dominik said, I didn't post any sketches (I have none to post, actually). But, my boards are 7.50"x 2.25" (1/8" thickness) and they look like this:



Should be pretty easy to scale from there!

Cheers,

Gil