First clip from my D'22 build

[markmalin]

He's a clip of my D'Lite 22 after tweeking components. This is my first D*mble style build. I'm just curious what you guys think because it's starting to sound the way I want it to. It's a poor recording using my Sony Minidisc recorder and a little stereo condensor mike, and I'm just noodling around trying to get a "bluesy" sort of just-broken-up tone. No fancy backing tracks - ignore the playing. I'm using my Les Paul Classic on the neck pickup with these settings:

O.D. ON
Brite ON
PAB OFF
Treble 2:00
Mid 7:00 (all the way OFF)
Bass 11:00
Gain 9:30
Level 10:00
Presence 5:00 (all the way on)


Thanks to a bunch of you guy for your help and suggestions - the gist of the recent mods were getting the V1 and V2 voltages lower (V1 plates in the 180-185V range and V2 plates in the 195-198V range). I added a 100 Ohm dropping resistor to get the 6V6 plates down around 424V. I changed out the V2 snubbers to 330 pf. Also, I put in a 10K pot in series with the NFB resistor to allow for more feedback (and it's set to 10K). I added a bypass switch on the V1 NFBL and that's set to Bypass on this recording.

I won't waste bandwidth about the details of the original mods -- you can see my other post from last week or so.

Mark.

[odourboy]

Thanks for posting Mark.

It sounds nice enough, but I need to hear more drive (and maybe through the bridge PUP of your Paul) to get a sense of how Dumblesque you're amp is sounding.

A couple of questions: What are you using for a speaker and cab? Is it a lot brighter in person? Having the bright on and the Treble at 2:00 should be a pretty deadly combination as far as brightness goes. I usually run my Treble lower, say 11:00 and have the brightness off for OD. However, I also have more drive on it which tends to need to be controlled.

[markmalin]

Thanks for posting Mark.

It sounds nice enough, but I need to hear more drive (and maybe through the bridge PUP of your Paul) to get a sense of how Dumblesque you're amp is sounding.

A couple of questions: What are you using for a speaker and cab? Is it a lot brighter in person? Having the bright on and the Treble at 2:00 should be a pretty deadly combination as far as brightness goes. I usually run my Treble lower, say 11:00 and have the brightness off for OD. However, I also have more drive on it which tends to need to be controlled.

I'm going to try some overdriven clips later this week and try to post them. I can do that with the bridge pickup.

This is an open back combo - speaker is an Eminence Delta Pro 12A. Kind of dark compared to Celestions. I'm ordering another transf. so I can try out the 16 Ohm Celestion I picked up. Hopefully next week...

Re the treble and brite, it's probably me - hearing loss in the low frequencies after 30 years of playing guitar Seriously, it's from too much jazz influence. In my head, everything should sound like an L-5. I have the neck pickup's tone set to 5. When I crank that up toward 10 it's pretty painfully bright. Also, the mid was comepletely off. Kind of unconventional. If I switch to the bridge pickup, or turn up the tone on the guitar both the treble and brite switch are too much. The other thing is, like you said, this is just barely tainted with OD. I was trying to figure out the Gregor Hilden thing where he gets a clean jazzy tone when he's playing quietly, then digs in and it really sings with overdrive and sustain.

I'll mess around with more settings. Thanks for the comments - this is the type of thing I'm looking for. I've been playing Fenders so many years it's taken me a while to learn this amp.

Mark.

[odourboy]

Just to be clear as my comment on the brightness may have not come across right... the clip doesn't sound overly bright to me considering the settings.

I take it from you remarks that you have the tone control rolled back on your guitar? I so, that may be why it's not as bright as I'd expect given those settings. (Not to mention the challenges of accurately recording this stuff!!)

[markmalin]

Just to be clear as my comment on the brightness may have not come across right... the clip doesn't sound overly bright to me considering the settings.

I take it from you remarks that you have the tone control rolled back on your guitar? I so, that may be why it's not as bright as I'd expect given those settings. (Not to mention the challenges of accurately recording this stuff!!)

That's good to know.

I actually just messed around with recording on the bridge pickup with the gain at 12:00. Yikes, it's not a very nice distortion sound to my ears. Maybe I'm just not use to that much overdrive, but with the neck pickup it's pretty brash. After dialing in more, it started sounding better. I need to transfer the files to MP3 and I'll try to post one or two in the next couple days.

Mark.

[markmalin]

Thanks for posting Mark.
It sounds nice enough, but I need to hear more drive (and maybe through the bridge PUP of your Paul) to get a sense of how Dumblesque you're amp is sounding.

odourboy,

here's a clip with the bridge PU and more drive. I had messed with the PI adjustment a little, too. Controls are in different places.

Brite is OFF
OD is ON
PAB is OFF

treb 11:00
mid 1:00
bass 11:00
gain 10:30
level 11:00
pres 4:00

Is this even in the ball park? I listened to a couple clips on the forum and it seems people are getting more dynamics and sustain. Granted, there are no effects on this - no reverb, delay or anything. It's just raw, in the basement using my minidisc. I think the minidisc reproduces the sound just fine, but no consideration as to mic placement, etc.

Again, please ignore the playing - this is just noodling around to get some different sounds. Anyone's feedback is really appreciated!

Mark.

[Bob-I]

First off, congrats on the build. Now the fun starts.

I have to say though, something's wrong. you have some bad distortion, possibly crossover distortion on the output. The amp is not singing the way it should.

Post your voltages including bias voltage and current. Also if you can post some pictures maybe we can help you get the most from this amp.

[Bob-I]

sorry, double post

[markmalin]

First off, congrats on the build. Now the fun starts.

I have to say though, something's wrong. you have some bad distortion, possibly crossover distortion on the output. The amp is not singing the way it should.

Post your voltages including bias voltage and current. Also if you can post some pictures maybe we can help you get the most from this amp.

I'm not loosing my mind? Whew!! Thanks!

I'll have to scrounge up a digital camera, but I'll get some pictures up in the next day or so. Re voltages, I'll measure them tonight, but off the top of my head they're in this range:

V1 p1: ~180
V1 c1: ~1.4
V1 p2: ~188
V1 c1: ~1.5

V2 p1: ~190
V2 c1: ~1.5
V2 p2: ~199
V2 c2: ~1.6

V3 P1: ~292
V3 P2: ~299
V3 c1/c2: ~50

V4 and V5 plates: 424 (I'm running 6V6's)
cathode's around the same

Bias current is set to 22ma, but I don't remember where the bias voltage is hanging.

Again, these are FROM MEMORY. I'll measure them tonight and repost.

Once I lowered the voltages across the board, the amp started sounding better. But one thing I notice in the second sound clip is, the notes fade out quickly. Clean will sustain forever, but in OD it sort of peters out.

Mark.

[odourboy]

Well nothing wrong with those voltages that I can see - they are remarkably close to what I measured in my 6V6 build.

Two other questions fo import... where are you running your (clean) volume and what's your OD input trimmer set to? Significant since these both dictate how hard you're hitting the fist OD stage.

[moj067]

Check that OD trimmer, I think most go between 11:00 and 12:00 for best results.

[markmalin]

Well nothing wrong with those voltages that I can see - they are remarkably close to what I measured in my 6V6 build.

Two other questions fo import... where are you running your (clean) volume and what's your OD input trimmer set to? Significant since these both dictate how hard you're hitting the fist OD stage.

The clean volume was at 10:00. Kind of low.

The trimmer is set on the low side, I don't remember off hand, but I think less than 11:00. I'll look tonight. I'm guessing around 10:00. I had lowred this because my brother borrowed the amp and was frustrated that it was near impossible to get anything less than full distortion when you select OD, and he's a blues player. I dialed it back so that with the OD gain set to ~9:00 you can get it to just barely break up (like you'd want a blues amp to do).

Mark.

[Bob-I]

I'll have to scrounge up a digital camera, but I'll get some pictures up in the next day or so. Re voltages, I'll measure them tonight, but off the top of my head they're in this range:

V1 p1: ~180
V1 c1: ~1.4
V1 p2: ~188
V1 c1: ~1.5

V2 p1: ~190
V2 c1: ~1.5
V2 p2: ~199
V2 c2: ~1.6

V3 P1: ~292
V3 P2: ~299
V3 c1/c2: ~50

V4 and V5 plates: 424 (I'm running 6V6's)
cathode's around the same

Bias current is set to 22ma, but I don't remember where the bias voltage is hanging.

Again, these are FROM MEMORY. I'll measure them tonight and repost.

Once I lowered the voltages across the board, the amp started sounding better. But one thing I notice in the second sound clip is, the notes fade out quickly. Clean will sustain forever, but in OD it sort of peters out.

Mark.

Your preamp voltages are low. Shoot for around 200.

Since the bias seems about right, that means the crossover distortion is not the cause, plus the clean side is working well. You may have an oscillation on the OD side. If you can put it on a scope and see if there's anything showing up.

I'd say we're down to the OD side, but post a clip of the clean only also.

Just for the record, you should not have to drop the mid control to 0. If you're going for a Fender type clean, maybe this will do it, but for a Dumble sound, set the mids at about 1-2:00.

Just for shits and grins I'd try another tube in V2.

[Bob-I]

Well nothing wrong with those voltages that I can see - they are remarkably close to what I measured in my 6V6 build.

Two other questions fo import... where are you running your (clean) volume and what's your OD input trimmer set to? Significant since these both dictate how hard you're hitting the fist OD stage.

The clean volume was at 10:00. Kind of low.

The trimmer is set on the low side, I don't remember off hand, but I think less than 11:00. I'll look tonight. I'm guessing around 10:00. I had lowred this because my brother borrowed the amp and was frustrated that it was near impossible to get anything less than full distortion when you select OD, and he's a blues player. I dialed it back so that with the OD gain set to ~9:00 you can get it to just barely break up (like you'd want a blues amp to do).

Mark.

That's not a great way to get this blues sound. Drop both the gain and drive back and you'll get that semi breakup. Bring the trimmer up to about 80%, put both gain and drive at about 10-11:00 and see what it sounds like. You should have a saturated OD with plenty of sustain and clean articulation.

[Bob-I]

Well nothing wrong with those voltages that I can see - they are remarkably close to what I measured in my 6V6 build.

Two other questions fo import... where are you running your (clean) volume and what's your OD input trimmer set to? Significant since these both dictate how hard you're hitting the fist OD stage.

The clean volume was at 10:00. Kind of low.

The trimmer is set on the low side, I don't remember off hand, but I think less than 11:00. I'll look tonight. I'm guessing around 10:00. I had lowred this because my brother borrowed the amp and was frustrated that it was near impossible to get anything less than full distortion when you select OD, and he's a blues player. I dialed it back so that with the OD gain set to ~9:00 you can get it to just barely break up (like you'd want a blues amp to do).

Mark.

That's not a great way to get this blues sound. Drop both the gain and drive back and you'll get that semi breakup. Bring the trimmer up to about 80%, put both gain and drive at about 10-11:00 and see what it sounds like. You should have a saturated OD with plenty of sustain and clean articulation.