HRM BM Clip after some tweaks....

[Tonegeek]

I have been working on the clean sound, but the OD benefitted as much or more from a recent value change so I decided to make a clip (link below). Over the last year I have been optimizing this amp for use with my Mex. Strat and I am slowly getting where I want to go with it.

My setup *:
I used a Mex Strat with about 800 - 900 extra windings on the bridge pup, otherwise it is stock. I actully think it is over-wound now, so I will be taking about half the turns off to brighten it up a bit.

HRM, 50w El-34, Marshall trannies (500r resistor instead of choke), BM PI, Skyline stack (324p treble, .01 mid).
V1 and V2 Rp/Rk is 220K/3k3, 150K/2k2, 220K/3k3, 150K/2k2 with Ck of 5uF on all cathodes.
My V1 and V2 voltages at plates are 196, 206, 207, 213
PI plates are 278, 279 on feedback side.

OD entrance:
470k (no bypass cap) > 180k > 100k trim > ground
I am guessing wiper on trimmer is set about 15k - 20k above ground

Couplers:
V1b (CL2) = .01
OD1 = .001
OD2 = .01 (before the HRM stack)

HRM:
Treble = 500pf
bass = .02
middle = .0057 (.02 never worked for me)

Settings:
Vol = between 1 and 2 oclock
drive = 1 oclock
built in Dumblelator always on.

Mic is a SM-58 about 2.5 feet from the cab at 30 degrees to one side. I am using a tranny to convert to high impedance directly before the soundcard (a normal pc card, not studio quality). bit rate is 128k and exported as MP3 file. I believe I am losing a bit of fidelity because the amp sounds less middy and a tad brighter than the recording. I am procrastinating on springing for a real card. Reverb and delay was off the loop and none was added after tracking. Post prod. consisted of adjusting guitar level relative to the backing. No eq, fx. were added.

* note - I used to have some proprietary, non-Dumble tweaks (thanks Jim!) in this amp but they are all gone now but one and it is not in circuit on this clip. Still, as you can see, I am doing my own thing in some areas. It is all about getting a fat Strat sound...

I was using 180k on v1 Rp but that got upped to 220k. It is the only change I made this go around but it had a very noticeable impact on the sound. This clip is with full OD, mid and PAB boost with the drive setting as high as I would ever use it. Usually I have drive a bit lower. The volume is a good bit lower than I would use at band practice. It was low enough to play to the track coming off my PC through 4" speakers, but as you could tell I got a bit out of synch at times since i heard my amp more than the track. Normally I play more traditional blues scales on songs like this, but listening to Scott has got me thinking outside the box more lately! More like outside the solar system since I don't really know what I am doing...

I am really interested in what you guys think in terms of EQ about this clip. Does it need more highs?, upper mids, etc. Really just doing a reality check on my own ears...

When I get time I will make a clip of the amp with OD but no boost. I am really excited about this setting as I am getting some goodies from this area too. They are more on the crunchy rhythm side, but retaining the Strat sound. Good for SRV, Hendrix, etc.

Here is the latest clip (BROKEN LINK - READ ON)
http://www.freewebs.com/tonegeek/od_pamb_bridge.mp3

---EDIT--- the above link does not seem to work and I suspect the freebee site hosting me is wanting to advertise as the botton link does work since it goes to a web page and not directly to media content:

-the clip for this thread is the one dated 1/27/08-
http://www.freewebs.com/tonegeek/OD_S1a.htm

My bandwidth is low on this freeby site, so first come, first served.

[LooseChange]

That sounds great! I like just a bit more bit (treble) on the OD guitar.

[larsmuller]

Superb sound and playing!!! Jing Chi comes to mind!!

[odourboy]

Sounds great! Nice and fat - particularly for a strat (even if it is overwound a bit).

As for the recording. It sounds really good - blows my recording efforts out of the water. You've probably already done this, but try A-Bing with some for Dogear's better clips. He seems to have the technique down cold. Your's sounds pretty close, but there's an openess or airyness that Scott's captured, that it strikes me yours is a bit shy on. Also, 'perhaps' just a little less in the lower mids? Maybe a touch less verb? Trying to be helpful without sounding critical, because I think it's quite nice!

[stelligan]

Very nice HRM Strat tones! I am jealous.

[Structo]

Very nice.
So Tonegeek, when you talked about the Rp values on V1 did you retain the usual ratios between the two or did you just slap in the 220K?
Like 220k/150k or 180k/120k type ratios on the plate R.

What in your opinion was the best tweak to get a strat to sound good.

Of course mine is a D'Lite and not an HRM so it may be apples to oranges in my case.
Thanks

[dogears]

Dude...great playing!! I had no idea you were such a monster! Great articulation and feel. Time feel was superb!

Great tones.... Need to listen on laptop now. Sounds like it is coming along great!

Maybe try that 47pf again on the 470k. Maybe you'll dig now that you have altered other stuff.

[Tonegeek]

Sounds great! Nice and fat - particularly for a strat (even if it is overwound a bit).

As for the recording. It sounds really good - blows my recording efforts out of the water. You've probably already done this, but try A-Bing with some for Dogear's better clips. He seems to have the technique down cold. Your's sounds pretty close, but there's an openess or airyness that Scott's captured, that it strikes me yours is a bit shy on. Also, 'perhaps' just a little less in the lower mids? Maybe a touch less verb? Trying to be helpful without sounding critical, because I think it's quite nice!

Scott makes terrific recordings. His technique is completely different than mine as I believe he close mics his amp. I have had no luck doing that to date unless I also put a mike off in the room somehwere and mix it in. Also Scott uses better equipment with a real soundcard and does some post prod. with verb instead of putting it down with the track. But really all this is secondary to the sound of the amp. Even lousy recordings cannot mask the sound of a good sounding amp and conversely a great recording can't make up for the amp if it isn't right. His amps are right! I find that what does happen though is that if you don't have at least a decent mike and mike placement, that the mids get out of whack. Most of the time my recordings have more lower mids than what the amp really sounds like. I record in a small, square room so that is some of it. Mike placement is very important. Today I just put the mike in place and it came out better than usual. If I take my time with placement, it is worth it in the long run.

That sounds great! I like just a bit more bit (treble) on the OD guitar.

I agree. Thats where I think unwinding some off my pickup should help. Also my amp tends to brighten up when I get it up to gig volume so I have to compromise until I can find a way to smooth it out across the volume range - maybe a bleeder will help, but I find they sound kind of artificial so I avoid them.

Very nice.
So Tonegeek, when you talked about the Rp values on V1 did you retain the usual ratios between the two or did you just slap in the 220K?
Like 220k/150k or 180k/120k type ratios on the plate R.

Well it originally had 220k with 3.3k cathode if thats what you mean (see my original post for all the values) I early on put in 180k without changing the cathode and liked what I heard, but since I made the BM PI changes and also some coupler changes, I thought I should try the 220k again. Glad I did....

What in your opinion was the best tweak to get a strat to sound good.

Of course mine is a D'Lite and not an HRM so it may be apples to oranges in my case.
Thanks

It is tough to fatten up a Strat without losing the "Stratness" if you know what I mean. But ignoring that, for the big fat, OD lead tone I would say getting more pronounced low mids in OD is key followed by getting buzz free saturation. With my amp is is a tightrope to walk to keep the buzz out and get the low mids up. With the stock HRM trims I could not get the low mids going. Even with my current set up, the trims have to be just right. I am really not done with the mid HRM cap. I actually have a 3 way switch to change HRM mid caps on the fly and I still think I could probably up the value a bit more, maybe another .002 or so for some applications. This would have the affect of lowering the low mids a tad. Some of you will note that I am overlapping frequencies with the treble or bass controls but I claim artistic license here! Hey it works with my Strat YMMV. One other thing I am working on is the OD with no boost setting. This is where I can get some good breakup and still retain the "Stratness" for SRV, Hendrixy kind of stuff.

As far as your D-Lite: That Billy Yates clip gives me goosies so I think those amps can definitely give up the goods. You should be able to alter the freq. response of your amp although it may not be as easy to do as it is with a HRM amp. I would love to build a D-Lite some day.

Dude...great playing!! I had no idea you were such a monster! Great articulation and feel. Time feel was superb!

Great tones.... Need to listen on laptop now. Sounds like it is coming along great!

Maybe try that 47pf again on the 470k. Maybe you'll dig now that you have altered other stuff.

I am honored! Doubt I can repeat it... I actually do like the 47p for this type of clip. It is just that sometimes it is too much for some other stuff that I do, but I will revisit...

[kleinm]

Fantastic work, both playing and tweaking. I'm impressed! This is one of the better HRM clips I've heard.

Great work, man. Its hard to get the Strats to sing with these amps. For me, it took using the BM PAB in my non-HRM. I'm glad you found a way to make it work in your HRM. Once the amp cooperates, Strats sound amazing with these amps IMHO.

[Tonegeek]

Fantastic work, both playing and tweaking. I'm impressed! This is one of the better HRM clips I've heard.

Great work, man. Its hard to get the Strats to sing with these amps. For me, it took using the BM PAB in my non-HRM. I'm glad you found a way to make it work in your HRM. Once the amp cooperates, Strats sound amazing with these amps IMHO.

Thanks! One reason I put my HRM mid cap on a switch is eventually I want to rig a way to switch the eq so I can use my Reverend or the Strat without compromising on the sound with either. Not sure the HRM cap is the way to go but I will try it.

I am still trying to milk out of this amp a bit more feedback on demand. I actually had a period this summer when it was doing that but it has faded a bit with some of the other tweaks. I am wondering if I need to do the speaker cable phase reverse again as something may have changed in the signal phase with all the cap swaps I have made. Just a thought...

[heisthl]

The only thing that would change the phase is adding a single gain stage (grid input, plate output). Like a dumbleator for example; it keeps the same phase on the first stage ( because it's a cathode follower - grid input, cathode output) but filps it on the recovery stage (grid input, plate output). The net result is a 180 degree phase change.

[mat]

Really good tone Those earlier clips are very good also IMO.

How far did You put the mic on the latest recording ?

Cool playing also

[Tonegeek]

Really good tone Those earlier clips are very good also IMO.

How far did You put the mic on the latest recording ?

Cool playing also

Thanks!
Mic is an old SM-58 with the foam removed from the windscreen placed out 2.5 ft from the front of the cab and then 6"" away from one side, then aimed a little toward the edge of the cab. My original post has more about the recording technique (or lack of...) very low tech.

[mat]

Really good tone Those earlier clips are very good also IMO.

How far did You put the mic on the latest recording ?

Cool playing also

Thanks!
Mic is an old SM-58 with the foam removed from the windscreen placed out 2.5 ft from the front of the cab and then 6"" away from one side, then aimed a little toward the edge of the cab. My original post has more about the recording technique (or lack of...) very low tech.

Thanks Tonegeek, I will try this technique. Your clip has nice boom and thickness on the sound, I like it

[v00d00blues79]

Damn... that sounds good! Was that straight up bridge pickup through the entire clip?

Thanks,

Andy