NOS parts in 183

[boldaslove6789]

So after quite a bit of time with my Quinn SDO-R 183 with new production parts (Dalle RN65's on the plates, metal film cathodes, 6ps couplers), I have been very satisfied with sound quality of the amp. It blooms in the most musical now. I just wanted to do some expierementing and change out some parts to as close as I can get to the original Dumble #183.

Instead of replacing all of the NOS parts at one time, I've decided to replace the parts one by one to hear the changes taking place, and if some parts make a difference or not.

So far, wow, the parts do certainly make a noticable difference. I wish I had a digital scope to see the the amps frequency responce change. The most prodominant change has to be that there is even more note seperation then there was before. Holy sh@#, the amp sound absolutely even more amazing than it sounded to begin with.

Here's what I've changed so far:

Mepco/Electra RN65c:
150k/215k Clean & OD plates
215k OD entrance
24.7k Clean Grid


100k Sprague Q-line (2w) in OD

NTE Metal films
180k OD grid
180k in OD

Dale 7681 series RN:
1M's in the PI

Beyshlag/Piher:
4.7k NFB resister

Still going to change these out when the parts arrive from Shad:

NOS 6ps Orange drops:
Tonestack
Overdrive coupling caps

Beyshlag/Piher:
68k grid in OD

And also may change the cathodes and 220k v1 grid out to the 1w Sprague Q-lines, and expierement with NTE 220k/150k plates.

May change the 1.5k screens and pwr supply dropping string's out to some Sprague Q-lines too

The amp has the following tubes in it and the trigger is set at 22.7k

V1 Clean: GE short plate 12ax7/Ecc83
V2 OD: Amperex short plate Ecc83
V3 D-lator: Zenith labled Amperex long plate 7025
V4 Reverb Drive: Mid 60's Mullard Ecc83 short plate
V5 Reverb recover: JJ Ecc81
V6 PI : Ge short plate 12ax7/Ecc83

The pwr amp has a matched quad of EH EL34's.

All pre amp tubes test perfect matched triodes, except the new JJ.[/u]

[markr14850]

If possible, could you share the details of what sonic effect accompanied each component change. Or maybe just which couple of changes had the most sonic effect?

Thanks!
--Mark

[212Mavguy]

Nice tube cocktail in that amp!

[talbany]

So far, wow, the parts do certainly make a noticable difference.

Told Ya!!..

Tony

[67plexi]

Greg, I have 2 #183 builds used exact parts in both builds, it took over a year to obtain the parts.
A few changes the main filter board I used 33uf @ 450v to get 16.5uf (think tweed Deluxe)
Next the overdrive was too grainy the fix was change the bright caps too polystyrene 250pf and 500pf.
At 250pf with my 60 Burst it nails Jimmy Page and at 500pf War Pigs or AC/DC.
With my 1961 Stratocaster it covers all bases from soft Jazz to hard Rock.
Live I play a Parker Fly Deluxe 3.5 LBS it is a tone turd but in the fet input it gets the job done.
Now my main amp is #0060 non reverb. I did learn a wealth of information from #183.

It’s all good, Steve.

[boldaslove6789]

If possible, could you share the details of what sonic effect accompanied each component change. Or maybe just which couple of changes had the most sonic effect?

Thanks!
--Mark

It would be certainly be impossible to explain all the characteristics that the NOS Parts added to a previously great sounding Amp.

I can say this although, the increased clearity and oboe like note bloom on the lower bass notes came after I changed out the 220k Dale RN65 plate in the OD and Clean out to the Mepco RN65c 215k.

The NOS 180k NTE's also added yet even more note clarity and I think are the culprit for the deep & wide mid range bandwidth 183 is so famous for.

Now I'm only explaining some characteristics that the OD has, the cleans are an obvious part of the equation and IMO often part of the circuit whole that gets overlooked when trying to "fine tune" the OD. There can be certain artifacts that the cleans have that are only apparent when the OD is on, and I think this is the part of the circuit that HAD used to bring out the amps unique voice for the individual. I just wish there was more Clean clips of 183 on the net to use as an example to tweak the amp to but I'm stoked with how the cleans are now.

Really part of the magic of 183 is that the OD is really an actual extension of the cleans

Its hard to explain what the parts added since it really added small nuances and overtones and the amp is gaining all the little nitty gritty characteristics Dumble 183 had IMO. Damn the amp certainly gained that extra 1% that I have been chasing in every one of my Skyline era builds.

We'll c what the rest of the parts bring to the table

[qtone]

I heard this amp when it arrived here in Texas and throughout.
This last change really sounds the best to me .

**Greg heard and played mine said its not enough gain and lets change the tubes to NOS glass we did made a GIANT difference in tone in the amp as stated before..**

Then he worked with some NOS parts he rooted up on a project I had
as well evidently on his own amp.

The results from that were even better then just using the nos glass.
Which tells me that indeed the NOS glass and NOS parts made LEAPS and BOUNDS differences in sound.

Im very pessimistic when it comes to hype so I sat and watched and listened when something bowls me over sound wise im interested..

I think the NOS parts made an extra difference in sound and too me its as if it added some sag or dare I say just the right amount of latency and I know
thats not the word but the notes seem to wait just a second then bloom but not too long..

Its as if its not as fast and that made a big difference in how the notes sounded too me..

Really nice chord definition and single note bloom..

The notes would take off but not as fast allowing more dynamics or technique to shine through..

Tough to illustrate verbally but its as if it tracks better and is right with
his playing style even more so now..

Im requesting mine be done as well but waiting on my rack and switching system to be completed too so not trying to spread the man too thin.

That said I think its worth every penny too get the NOS glass and NOS parts.
I am going to order the parts change and go the extra on my personal amp
as I feel its worth it.

It clearly makes a huge difference in how the amp reacts too the individual player..

To my ears that is and Ive been listening mainly too this amp over my own for the better of 2 months now..

The Nos glass made a giant difference to my amp so the parts should follow suit.

Im sold..

[212Mavguy]

That is rteally really good news. I collect old glass.

I know that in his very simple, low parts count circuits that Alessandro make generous use of copper foil PIO tone caps and if i remember right, occasionaly Rubycon Black Gate cathode bypass caps appeared. Have used both types of mentioned caps as well as tantalum resistors in a champ type build with great results. PIO's Sprague Vitamin Q's, in my JTM45 Bluesbreaker from Chris Siegmund, that amp's output sounds sweet and oh so musically complex, that amp sustains and blooms very, very well.

It uses the enhanced, slightly bigger capacity radiospares type OT (MM Axiom) with the three different primary taps and one 16 ohm secondary tap, but not the supersized Radiospares type. I'm jonesing to try one of those enhanced radiospares in my 50w HRM running RFT el34's.

Was wondering whether in someone's D-not-so-tightly-clone build PIO was tried, and if so liked...

[amplifiednation]

Greg,
I've started a similar experiment with my 102 build. I don't have the q-lines, but I got some nice NOS carbon films (mostly resista and draloric) and swapped out

slope
v1a grid
v2a/b grid
OD entrance
OD outputs

I had Xicons in each position. The only value I couldn't get spot on was the OD entrance, I used a 243k instead of a 220k.

Plugged the amp in, first off, it is noticeably quieter. The tone sounds a bit more organic and more open, the string dynamics improved a bit, I can hear the strings hit the fretboard more. I notice a little cleaner bass notes, with more clarity and less mud. The amp seems a sweeter.

It already sounded awesome, but definitely sounds a bit better. Next I'm going to do the MF plates and cathode resistors. I have more CF for the PI cathode and V1b grid.

Good times!!

T

[boldaslove6789]

Taylor,

I've found that having values that are slightly off can give you a chance to see how far we can stretch the variables tonally. HAD of course new what to tweak to get all these unique cleans and OD characteristics we all know and love.

After going the extra mile on my 183 amp, changing the parts and NOS glass, I've been listining to all this Jing Chi RF and thats the tonal characteristics my amp is sounding like now.

The parts add a certain smoothness and make the amp sound almost high definition compared to what it sounded like preveiously. Another thing is the amp is more dynamic'ly responsive and note bloom is much more unique.

[amplifiednation]

I put some more work in the 102, now I have a red plating tube...ugghh...shouldn't be s difficult fix, my voltages are off, so Im gonna grab a dentist mirror tomorrow and see if I shorted something under the board.

Once I square that up, I hope to have some results from the NOS MF in the amp.

[bluesfendermanblues]

Hi Greg,

I was wondering, about the current status of your NOS project.

Have you added more NOS parts to the amp?

Also after playing the amp for a longer period of time, which NOS updates do you think has had the most impact on altering the amps tone and feel?

is it still the 215k plate resistors...

[boldaslove6789]

Hi Greg,

I was wondering, about the current status of your NOS project.

Have you added more NOS parts to the amp?

Also after playing the amp for a longer period of time, which NOS updates do you think has had the most impact on altering the amps tone and feel?

is it still the 215k plate resistors...

Still waiting on some stuff to arrive (6Ps coupling caps, 5k6 Sqraugue Q-lines), and some more stuff for the pre and pwr amp (Sprague Q-line 1k5 Screens, dropping resistors, cathodes, etc)


I would say that the most difference was the plates's (yes they're 215/150k). Since then, I also changed out the OD grid to a 68k Betschlag and that changed the frequency responce of the OD too, for the better of course.

Its almost like I got an HD upgrade in the amp, the Mids are more elastic (like 183), Note bloom is nice and even, all over the fretboard. The Highs are smother, the amp is less forgiving Notes are more open and out there, whether you want them to be there or Not All good improvements to the amp of course.

[bluesfendermanblues]

Thank for the update. Greg.

Since reading you post, I have sourced some Mepco 150K's, still looking for a bunch of 215k (or preferably 220K).

My own #102 clone was been build with sprague Q-lines on all grids - sourced from an old 70s' Laney amp - and 6PS from start. However, like you I want to squeeze out every little bit of tone that is in the amp.

Looking forward to learning more once your amp gets more NOS parts.

[dimitris]

www.markoparts.com has vintage mepco/electra resistors in suitable values for plates and cathodes.