Nevermind then...old news...

[ampdork]

Old news I guess...

[vibratoking]

Did I miss something? I thought this was old news.

[Structo]

[vibratoking]

FYI. The original post said something like this (I am paraphrasing).

"The Carol Ann is a Dclone with a Skyliner preamp and Bluesmaster PI". I posted my response.

[glasman]

"The Carol Ann is a Dclone with a Skyliner preamp and Bluesmaster PI". I posted my response.

Thats pretty funny. A lot of the early (gen one) Glaswerks amps were built along the same lines.

Skyliner (modded a little) to a Marshall PI.

Gary

[talbany]

Our very early 1st Gen VVT's were Bluesmasters around 2000..Before I knew what BM's were!!!..

Tony

[ampdork]

Sorry m8's I had made a comment at TGP in a Dumble thread about manufacturers who build them....

I said "Don't Tell Alan of CA that you said that...hahahaha"

Everyone knows how adamant he is about that. So I saw no harm in it at all...

When I got some bullshit warning about it, my comments removed and yet the cartoon stays up I had to think... someone cried foul....
after some consideration maybe not though....maybe TGP is just full of petty tyrants?

However it did spark my anger regarding the obvious (to other builders) cloning of Dumble circuits and then vehement denial of that being the case and using goop to hide that fact but claiming it is for some other purpose...

My anger subsided rather quickly compared to my past... So I attempted to drop the matter and after about 15 minutes I could not have cared much less.

However not afraid to stand by my words. Some CA's are straight up dumble derived and any claim otherwise is bullshit.. I'm cool with saying that cause it is 100% true... I never saw that anyone ever called it out or copped to it... I only recall denial but whatever....it is old news indeed.


Now if you want REAL dramas though (if you guys didn't this thread would have dropped off pretty quickly) I can mention that I sent Andy Fuchs a cease and desist request. He and I are not pal's, he has sent me a C&D for using ODS in a rather generic manner....referring to the body of work of Dumble and his overdrive specials... I said ODS and was reminded that Andy legally copyrighted it ...So fine I never used that term again...

Now though Andy is using MY company name to sell loops...
Your a sneaky little weasel Andy...

There guys...since we could not allow the comment to blow under the bridge (thanks vibratoking) I figured I'd up the anty and give that one and another to talk about...

['67_Plexi]

I think you will find the following very consistent with everything I've ever said. I don't like being referred to as a Dumble cloner because I'm not. You are and thats fine and if I get anyone who wants a Dumble clone I will refer them to guys like yourself who do that. None of the following have I ever denied, try the search function on here for a start, I've discussed the models and what they are composed off several times.
Seems I missed your comment on TGP.

OD100 - Based on an EL34 HRM Dumble with a loop added and built in a steel chassis. Closest we built to a Dumble clone. PI and output section was Marshall Plexi....this was before any info came out about the bluesmaster. Scott Lerner and several others who were around at the time could verify this. I talked to Scott in depth at the time about wanting to couple a Dumble preamp with a Plexi type O/P stage. I wanted the Dumble type preamp with a more British output stage. THe fact that Dumble had done the Bluesmaster was actually coninidental....and ironic, but I truly was not aware of it at the time. Some of the people making comments here were not even around at the time.

OD2 - Clean and OD channel seperated more, eq on the front panel, various changes to the OD freq. response, limits of control ranges etc. Several modifications were made based from suggestions from EJ, Bonamassa, David Grissom and a few others. MK 2 version brought the 6L6 model, transformer set nothing at all like a 6L6 Dumble. PI and efx loop circuit changed. Bottom mounted. Steel chassis.

The newer models each go further and further away from the origins. Th Triptik is a completely original design in every way and has no connection in any way to the original OD100 or any amp for that matter. It's a 3 channel high gain rock amp. The Revo 1, Revo 45 and Tweenie are also totally non-Dumble inspired and original.

You can call them clones if it makes you feel better, but they are a pretty bad attempt at cloning if thats the case. I have actually never built a true clone of a Dumble, why would I, I've worked on and played enough originals to know it was something that didn't interest me. I preferred to learn from what I liked and what I didn't. Nothing sinister in that.
When I built the first OD100, there were a number of aspects I liked about the HRM gain staging and I subsequently developed it further and further in a different direction with each model in the OD line. We are now at the OD3 which has a completely different clean channel, and I think thats as far as I want to take that design, that....sure....can be traced right back though the model line to the original OD100 and ultimately a HRM Dumble !! Is that CLEAR ENOUGH ?

As for the goop, a $20 hot air gun removes it easily. If anyone genuinely wants to know whats under it, just ask me. There's nothing to hide. It just helps stop microphonics from components like ceramic caps vibrating when the amp is on a cab (the chassis is bottom mounted remember), it also helps keep lead dress in place, All of the derived designs only use 2 short pieces of coax and in some of the higher gain models, it's vital to keep cables in place and have no induced vibrations on senstive circuit areas.

I am dissapointed to see any builder who does this professionally taking shots at other builders on this forum or anywhere else for that matter. You shouldn't do it because you know this is a tough business to make your living from. What may be a hobby to most on here, is our income, it pays the bills. I have a family. The same goes for Andy Fuchs, he pays wages to a number of people, they all have families too. What is there to be gained by being negative about others in the same business? It makes you look like an ass basically.

As for Andy mentioning your business name in relation to the promotion of his products. He is also using mine in exactly the same way. I don't see a problem and I'm quite happy for the cross-promotion. Look to the bigger picture. THe more people who see your brand name the better.

How about we all stick to technical discussions and positive things instead of trying to drag others down in a futile attempts to discredit. If you want to try to discredit me, at least try to do it in a technical argument about something interesting.
I'm sorry, but no onlooker will view one amp builder making snide comments towards another positively.

[spiralstairs]

I've always stuck to the Trainwreck side and am only recently peeking at some dumble stuff because I took a BF-ish pre-amp with a mid-boost option and a tonestack defeat and a cascading channel with a marshall EQ post-OD and put it onto a plexi build. While doing this I thought 'I bet this is perhaps similar to some dumble stuff, perhaps I should see how some of those schematics compare'

.. turns out it was real similar in concept, and I easily adapted the OD side to be more dumble like
so now I'm a cloner, too... doh!

there is little room for true inovation

especially when the customers only want what they already know.


On a side note - I understand where CA is coming from. If customers want a d-clone, they shouldn't go to him because thats not the point. His point is to build his amp, not a clone based on customer specifications - whether his amp is close to some others or not is beside the point. If someone is looking for a d-clone and he says "ya come on down and try mine" they may be disappointed if they really have something else in mind, so its better for him to say "d-inspired" rather than "d-clone", not just to sound high+mighty but to be more to the point

and... how come the d-style side of the board always has drama?

[LeftyStrat]

how come the d-style side of the board always has drama?

I don't think it is just the d-style part of the board. There's been drama on every amp building board I've ever been on. People gain experience building amps and try to make a living out of it, only to see everything as a threat to their business.

Anyone thinking they can make a fortune out of building handmade amps are deluded. Any circuit can be copied and sent off to China, where labor is cheaper than shit. Your only hope is to mystify already deluded guitar players into thinking their is some magic mojo in your amps that will transform their crappy playing into a rock star performance. Anyone wanting to get rich needs to think about scale. You'll never sell a million handmade amps

I think most high-end sales of boutique amps more likely go to doctors and lawyers with more cash than talent than to any real working musicians. And the sad truth is that some poor slob with more talent than cash will make some Silvertone or Traynor the next Holy Grail.

Leo copied a standard design. Jim Marshall copied Leo. Others copied Marshall. People like Dumble and Fisher were true amp gurus, but failed to capitalize. The price they got for their amps versus the aftermarket saddens me.

Other than Leo and Jim, most amp builders are failed lead guitarists. Somehow in their old age they still want to become some kind of star.

Honestly sometimes I believe the entire music industry is based on the placebo effect and the emperor's new clothes.

[bluesfendermanblues]

Honestly sometimes I believe the entire music industry is based on the placebo effect and the emperor's new clothes.

Same goes for the stock market and every non-commodity market.

['67_Plexi]

how come the d-style side of the board always has drama?

I don't think it is just the d-style part of the board. There's been drama on every amp building board I've ever been on. People gain experience building amps and try to make a living out of it, only to see everything as a threat to their business.

Anyone thinking they can make a fortune out of building handmade amps are deluded. Any circuit can be copied and sent off to China, where labor is cheaper than shit. Your only hope is to mystify already deluded guitar players into thinking their is some magic mojo in your amps that will transform their crappy playing into a rock star performance. Anyone wanting to get rich needs to think about scale. You'll never sell a million handmade amps

I think most high-end sales of boutique amps more likely go to doctors and lawyers with more cash than talent than to any real working musicians. And the sad truth is that some poor slob with more talent than cash will make some Silvertone or Traynor the next Holy Grail.

Leo copied a standard design. Jim Marshall copied Leo. Others copied Marshall. People like Dumble and Fisher were true amp gurus, but failed to capitalize. The price they got for their amps versus the aftermarket saddens me.

Other than Leo and Jim, most amp builders are failed lead guitarists. Somehow in their old age they still want to become some kind of star.

Honestly sometimes I believe the entire music industry is based on the placebo effect and the emperor's new clothes.

Take a look and Kenny or Alexanders designs. Fender/Marshall/Vox taken in their own direction. No different. It's technical evolution. Same with any technology. I don't think every time a new cell phone or washer or DVD player comes out the wheel is re-invented. That makes no sense at all.

I agree there is a 'latest and greatest' mentality amongst some consumers, and yes I also agree we can somewhat catergorize them, but I will leave the cliches to someone else. But there are also more pro musicians these days using gear from smaller boutique Companies than there ever has been in the past.
I do completely agree with your point on great players being able to use anything. This is totally true, but they often don't want to and do chose to go with something else more suitable and more custom built to their spec.
I have a client list to prove it, as does any Boutique Company that is fortunate enough to have their products seen and heard by the right people.

[Structo]

how come the d-style side of the board always has drama?

I don't think it is just the d-style part of the board. There's been drama on every amp building board I've ever been on. People gain experience building amps and try to make a living out of it, only to see everything as a threat to their business.

Yeah it's a shame that emotions and the politics of the business have to come into play on the forums.

I believe Alan has stated before that he doesn't really build amps for hobby guitarists or amateurs.
While that may seem arrogant to some, I believe what he means is, the amps he builds are made for professional use and are tweaked for live performance of a certain volume level.

I don't think that means he wouldn't sell you one, it's just that he doesn't want to disappoint a bedroom player with an amp that might not sound the greatest at bedroom levels.

He is one of the handful of amp makers that have taken inspiration from a certain design and made it his own with his ability as a designer and builder.

Others simply offer clones of the various Dumble amps that have been made.
They both have a place in the market since some really do want a clone.

And I agree, I don't think it would be easy at all to make it in this boutique amp market.
Too much competition at present unless you can offer something revolutionary.

[cbass]

And I agree, I don't think it would be easy at all to make it in this boutique amp market.
Too much competition at present unless you can offer something revolutionary.

Or just make people belive you are offering something revolutionary.

[wishkahdaddy]

What is the purpose of your post? To be honest with you, your post does not put you in good light. Honestly, you sound like a very angry person who is in need of some help. With that said, I'm a licensed therapist and will offer you, free of charge, anger counseling over Skype. I'm sure we can get down to some much deeper issues that are bothering you as there is no reason to drag two very fine men, Alan Phillips and Andy Fuchs, through the mud for issues that probably stem back to your childhood. In counseling there is a term called "scapegoat". Alan and Andy are filling the scapegoat role for some deeper rooted issue that is haunting you. I'm here to help!
I have not ran across a more bitter man on these threads since I've dealt with Shad from Quinn Amps. As a psychologist, your words are actually disturbing to me!

Sorry m8's I had made a comment at TGP in a Dumble thread about manufacturers who build them....

I said "Don't Tell Alan of CA that you said that...hahahaha"

Everyone knows how adamant he is about that. So I saw no harm in it at all...

When I got some bullshit warning about it, my comments removed and yet the cartoon stays up I had to think... someone cried foul....
after some consideration maybe not though....maybe TGP is just full of petty tyrants?

However it did spark my anger regarding the obvious (to other builders) cloning of Dumble circuits and then vehement denial of that being the case and using goop to hide that fact but claiming it is for some other purpose...

My anger subsided rather quickly compared to my past... So I attempted to drop the matter and after about 15 minutes I could not have cared much less.

However not afraid to stand by my words. Some CA's are straight up dumble derived and any claim otherwise is bullshit.. I'm cool with saying that cause it is 100% true... I never saw that anyone ever called it out or copped to it... I only recall denial but whatever....it is old news indeed.


Now if you want REAL dramas though (if you guys didn't this thread would have dropped off pretty quickly) I can mention that I sent Andy Fuchs a cease and desist request. He and I are not pal's, he has sent me a C&D for using ODS in a rather generic manner....referring to the body of work of Dumble and his overdrive specials... I said ODS and was reminded that Andy legally copyrighted it ...So fine I never used that term again...

Now though Andy is using MY company name to sell loops...
Your a sneaky little weasel Andy...

There guys...since we could not allow the comment to blow under the bridge (thanks vibratoking) I figured I'd up the anty and give that one and another to talk about...