Ceriatone 183 and Ford Amp

[leodiditright]

Yeah, that looks pretty close to what I suggested. Stuff like adding PS stiffness, using 4.7uf bypass caps, etc... All I did was suggest the standard values and remove Nik's changes which would make the amp brighter, gainier, and thinner.

I'd further suggest you look at talbany's Ford amp layout and use those values.... You can try the 2.2uf presence vs the 1uf and see which you prefer.

Scott

http://www.sheetsofsound.net/images/OvertoneModded.pdf

Thanks Scott

[JD0x0]

FWIW ive heard rumours of a Ceriatone SSS clone in the works. So we'll see what happens with that. Nik HAS copied a few amps straight from this board but he has also tweaked and designed a few of his own amps, and he shares all of his layouts. He just doesnt post them here.

[JImmyD]

It is true that some of the Ceriatone chassis arrived bent from shipment. I am aware of two examples of that happening. In both cases, the amps (or chassis) was shipped in the USA from one owner to another new owner. Therefore the packaging for the shipment was at likely to be at fault. When my completed chassis arrived from Malaysia it was packed to withstand WWIII. It is never gonna bend in my lifetime as I transport it from dive bar to the next legion hall.

I think the biggest knock on Ctone that can be made is the quality of the trannies. That is why one should purchase his excellant kits without the iron to further save on shipping and to spec out and install better quality, better sounding parts.

Carry on.

[Bob-I]

Here's a question...

About the layouts and schematics that are posted here (I've done a few, talbany has offered up a ton of excellent work).

Is it expected that folks will use them to build amps? I know I expect that. If the answer is yes, then is is it possible that some folks could sell these amps, I know I've sold a few but I'm not in business, I just sell them when I get bored with them.

So IMHO some folks may make profit, some may build for themselves.

What's the problem? Competition? Some may not believe this, but BMW sells far fewer 5 series cars than Ford sells Focus'. Both have 4 wheels and get you where you're going, but the difference in quality is obvious. Does Ceriatone=Fuchs in quality or tone NFW

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Thanks for the kind words Bob.

[jazzguitarplayer]

If you wanna compete with Nik, then why not lower your pricing??. Then no one in the USA would have a need to buy a amp made in Malaysia. The pricing of most D clones made in the states keeps most full time guitarists like myself from being able to afford one.

[bluesfendermanblues]

If you wanna compete with Nik, then why not lower your pricing??. Then no one in the USA would have a need to buy a amp made in Malaysia. The pricing of most D clones made in the states keeps most full time guitarists like myself from being able to afford one.

The simple answer is that Dumble style amps are a niche market....a very small amount of the total mass market, where dominant players are Peavey and fender.

In order to produce to lower prices you need a higher proportion of the market volume, which will enable you to source all or parts of the production to asia in order get costs down.

[FUCHSAUDIO]

If you wanna compete with Nik, then why not lower your pricing??. Then no one in the USA would have a need to buy a amp made in Malaysia. The pricing of most D clones made in the states keeps most full time guitarists like myself from being able to afford one.

It costs alot to build (properly and legally), not in your home, basement or garage. A true/real company in the US or even other places (with dealers, advertising, trade shows, warranty, CE and RoHs certifications etc) carries with it many expenses for insurance, taxes, overhead, that a small third world company does not bear. We've been over this lots of times.

[M Fowler]

Also in addition to what Andy noted, the state unemployment tax and Federal unemployment tax for my employees about killed me when I owned a business. Not to mention the other taxes I paid out.

The cost of supplies was enormous with the only quantity break saving you but if your a small company well then there is limited ability in that regards, isn't there.

The asking price for a top level professionally built amp is justified if you take the time to actually understand why the amplifier came to that price level. They can't work for free.

To buy a Ceriatone or build your own is completely understandable just don't ask why others charge so much because the answer is quiet obvious.

Mark

[JoeB63]

How long until some US company buys Ceriatone? I'd bet not too long.

[Mr Dumble]

If you wanna compete with Nik, then why not lower your pricing??. Then no one in the USA would have a need to buy a amp made in Malaysia. The pricing of most D clones made in the states keeps most full time guitarists like myself from being able to afford one.

It costs alot to build (properly and legally), not in your home, basement or garage. A true/real company in the US or even other places (with dealers, advertising, trade shows, warranty, CE and RoHs certifications etc) carries with it many expenses for insurance, taxes, overhead, that a small third world company does not bear. We've been over this lots of times.

Agree Andy. The costs involved to run a small business that meets all legal requirements can be staggering. My insurance costs alone are mind boggling.

[Structo]

If you wanna compete with Nik, then why not lower your pricing??. Then no one in the USA would have a need to buy a amp made in Malaysia. The pricing of most D clones made in the states keeps most full time guitarists like myself from being able to afford one.

The problem there is trying to compete with Asian labor.
I wonder what kind of payroll taxes they pay in Malaysia?
I know it's high here.

And since most electronic components are now made in China, they probably get a good discount there because of low shipping costs.

I can completely understand the $3K price tag on some of these amps in the USA.

It comes down to, what is your time worth to you?

If you have built a ODS style amp then you know how much labor is in it.
A lot!

I think if I had all the parts and layout so that I could just solder and wire it, it would take me at least three days.
If I was to build them all the time I could probably get it down to two days.

A place like Ceriatone probably has different people doing different tasks.
Like one person installing parts onto the chassis.
One person stuffing boards and soldering them and flying leads.

One tech soldering everything together in the chassis.

[jazzguitarplayer]

Heres part of the dilemma,
If you go into Wallmart or many other stores in America, over 95% of everything sold there is made in China or the Orient or Mexico. Of course most of it is inferior.
But Ceriatone is building a hand made PTP quality product for more then half less of what you can purchase in the USA. I can understand some bent up chassis when your shipping from as far away as Malaysia and maybe there not using Mercury Magnets transformers but from my own personal experience, Ceriatone amps sound GREAT and Ive a/b'd from against name boutique amps made in America. By no means do i mean to hurt amp builders in the States but this comes down to the final product of the sound. I play music worldwide and ive never had someone say you sound great but your amp was not made in the USA. They just say, you sound good or great or dont say anything at all. I could care less if Nik comes here and thanks people for what was made public, I just care about sounding as good as i can and having money left over to pay my bills.

[67plexi]

Well, I don’t use any china parts in my builds yes it takes time to source NOS mil-spec parts.
The cost is 10x more but the sound bottom line is well worth it to me $3,000 in parts to build a ODS.
If you ever see a gut shot of a top of the line real Dumble no china parts thank you HAD.

[FUCHSAUDIO]

I hear ya Plex, however in the real world (of CE and RoHs) that stuff don't quite cut it....as much as I agree btw...