Dumb and Dumbler

[guitardude57]

Your secondary voltage seems to be where a 6-0-6 tranny would be.

Way high.

I would think Regulator input voltage to be around 9-11 volts

The regulator could handle that. Look at the spec sheet for your 7805 reg....max input voltage, to be sure.

I have only used 12V regs on these amps

What is the secondary voltage across the leads before the doubler components?

Something is weird........................

[dreric]

Your secondary voltage seems to be where a 6-0-6 tranny would be.

Way high.

I would think Regulator input voltage to be around 9-11 volts

The regulator could handle that. Look at the spec sheet for your 7805 reg....max input voltage, to be sure.

I have only used 12V regs on these amps

What is the secondary voltage across the leads before the doubler components?

Something is weird........................

Thanks for your help,

I measured the voltages throughout the circuits:

For the 102 build (voltage doubler)

120VAC --> 3V-0-3V Transformer --> 14VAC --> Doubler board --> 18.9 VDC output --> 7812TJP volt regulator --> 5.04 VDC output to the relays.

Interestingly for the bluesmater ( JB Board not doubler )

120VAC --> 6V-0-6V Transformer --> 14VAC --> JB board --> 18.0 VDC output --> 7812TJP volt regulator --> 12.4 VDC output to the relays.

What I don't understand is why the volt regulator works on one but not the other.

Also, why is the voltage coming out of the boards at 18VDC seems high

Thanks for the help

Eric

[guitardude57]

The diode that goes to ground on the doubler circuit.....check solder connection there.

Are you sure that the 3-0-3 is really what you think?
Looks like both are 12V trannies.....weird.


Which 102 schemo are you building from?

For a 5V reg....S/B a 7805, right?

I used Jason's relay supply and relay boards myself....I had 17.2 volts to the reg and 11.8 to the relay. But that is to 12V relays....so I was good.

I installed a DIP socket for easier replacement of relay if/when needed.

Have you tried a 12V relay there, instead of 5V one?

[ToneMerc]

Your secondary voltage seems to be where a 6-0-6 tranny would be.

Way high.

I would think Regulator input voltage to be around 9-11 volts

The regulator could handle that. Look at the spec sheet for your 7805 reg....max input voltage, to be sure.

I have only used 12V regs on these amps

What is the secondary voltage across the leads before the doubler components?

Something is weird........................

Thanks for your help,

I measured the voltages throughout the circuits:

For the 102 build (voltage doubler)

120VAC --> 3V-0-3V Transformer --> 14VAC --> Doubler board --> 18.9 VDC output --> 7812TJP volt regulator --> 5.04 VDC output to the relays.

Interestingly for the bluesmater ( JB Board not doubler )

120VAC --> 6V-0-6V Transformer --> 14VAC --> JB board --> 18.0 VDC output --> 7812TJP volt regulator --> 12.4 VDC output to the relays.

What I don't understand is why the volt regulator works on one but not the other.

Also, why is the voltage coming out of the boards at 18VDC seems high

Thanks for the help

Eric

If that is a 6V transformer then 18V is in it's range. I bet each half of that transformer is about 3.3VAC, which would be 6.6V. Thus, 6.6*2.82= 18.61DC.

I bet something isn't wired or hooked up correctly.

TM

[guitardude57]

Yes, something is amiss..........ground maybe.

[guitardude57]

Eric[/quote]

If that is a 6V transformer then 18V is in it's range. I bet each half of that transformer is about 3.3VAC, which would be 6.6V. Thus, 6.6*2.82= 18.61DC.

I bet something isn't wired or hooked up correctly.[/quote]





Isn't the times 2.82 consistant with the George Hrischenko voltage doubler circuit, which uses more diodes, and is different from a 2 diode voltage doubler circuit?

I'm just asking..............
even my 6-0-6 tranny didn't produce that much.....18+ volts.

[ic-racer]

I missed this thread when it first came up. I have some experience with the Super Twin. I did a complete re-do of a Super Twin Reverb, mating an ODS Skyliner circuit to the stock Super Twin output section (keeping the Super Twin PI and all 6 output tubes, etc). I don't know what I did right, but it came out sounding fantastic. https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0

You all probably know more about ultralinear output transformers than myself, but I was wondering if you were going to hook up the screens in ultralinear configuration. I left my amp that way (and would make no changes to the output section) and can say that I can hear no problem in tone with that configuration (even though it is not very popular with guitar amps.)

[dreric]

I missed this thread when it first came up. I have some experience with the Super Twin. I did a complete re-do of a Super Twin Reverb, mating an ODS Skyliner circuit to the stock Super Twin output section (keeping the Super Twin PI and all 6 output tubes, etc). I don't know what I did right, but it came out sounding fantastic. https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0

You all probably know more about ultralinear output transformers than myself, but I was wondering if you were going to hook up the screens in ultralinear configuration. I left my amp that way (and would make no changes to the output section) and can say that I can hear no problem in tone with that configuration (even though it is not very popular with guitar amps.)

ic-racer

I can pretty much guarantee that you know more about the ultra liner hook up than I do. All I know is that I've had three UL fenders from that period and all were not so good as guitar amps. I like UL for bass amps, I have a Bassman 135 and a Bassman 50 which are great amps .......... for bass.

Consequently, I hooked up the super twin OT in the standard configuration, tapping off the two middle leads and only connecting the ends.

Thanks for your interest.

Eric

[dreric]

Yes, something is amiss..........ground maybe.

In regards to the trouble I was having with the voltage doubler circuit in the 102 build I did everything that everyone suggested and no t matter what it always came down to 18VDC going into the voltage regulator and 5.04 coming out.

Sometimes when I look at something for too long I miss the obvious, I hope this the case. Frustrated, I pulled the circuit out and replaced it with the newer non-doubler circuit. This one works fine and while it may not be the period correct circuit I don't think the the relay power is the secret to the 102 tone. Maybe at a future date I'll look at the doubler board and have a "duh moment".

Eric

[dreric]

Keeping in the quirky theme of this thread which is two tandem builds, a 102 / Ford and a HRM Bluesmaster.

I found that the 102's relay and tone control wiring was different enough from the Bluesmaster that it was making my face hurt going back and forth between them, so I moved forward on the 102 so that everything short of heaters and primaries is done.

Next I'll catch up to this level with the Bluesmaster. My plan is to compare the two amps as I build trying to cultivate and electronics epiphany

Here's some photos of "dumb" the 102 / Ford build. Please speak up if you see something I've missed.

[dreric]

and some more.............

[dcribbs1412]

Look really nice dreric
love the NOS parts
really looks cool

Darin

[dreric]

Look really nice dreric
love the NOS parts
really looks cool

Darin

Thanks. I had enough orange drops to do this one in NOS so it kinda became and obsession

Should be interesting to hear when the time comes.

Eric

[Structo]

I'm still thinking about the relay power supply.

Looks like you used the #183 design on that power supply.

What I did was use Amp Doc's power supply pcb which has a small button full wave bridge rectifier and two filter caps.
This is fed by a 12v transformer.
Then it goes to a 7812 12v regulator which outputs to the relays and footswitch LED's.

Are you absolutely sure you have a 12v regulator?

If it were a 7805 regulator I can see why it would output 5v.

[dreric]

I'm still thinking about the relay power supply.

Looks like you used the #183 design on that power supply.

What I did was use Amp Doc's power supply pcb which has a small button full wave bridge rectifier and two filter caps.
This is fed by a 12v transformer.
Then it goes to a 7812 12v regulator which outputs to the relays and footswitch LED's.

Are you absolutely sure you have a 12v regulator?

If it were a 7805 regulator I can see why it would output 5v.

For the current relay in the 102, I used the one from the Bluesmaster layout / schematic. I think it's the same one as in the 183. This way both builds have the same PS and it seems to be working fine.

The 102 used the voltage doubler circuit and a 6VAC transformer to get up to 12VDC. Then the 7812 12V regulator. No matter what I did it seemed like a fault in the regulator, I'd have 18VDC going in but 5VDC coming out. I swapped regulators three time, re grounded still the same problem. One thing that was weird was that as I swapped regulators the output always stayed the same, 5.04VDC. That leads me to believe that the regulators were functioning properly and the problem was in the circuit, yet the circuit was supplying 18VDC consistently.

It's a mystery! (more likely, there's some fundamental explanation that is escaping me)

Eric