2010 TwoRock Artist clips and soon pics

[Structo]

My notes say .01uF on OD1.
.005uF on OD2.
With 100K pots on Overdrive.

[talbany]

I love the Rugged road tone..(Been playing it for years in bands) In all the Rocks I've played at least 1/2 dozen Artist's and Customs I never really got that RR vibe from them either..Don't get me wrong they didn't sound bad however I did't really experience the booming low end growl as well that I get when playing say my Music man..The Rocks seem to be more midrange focused somewhat smoother (naturally) and more in the Talk to your Daughter camp than Rugged Road..IMHO getting an amp with a large amount of low end in OD and have it sing and bloom and sustain without being flabby or muddy or distort in an un-pleasant way can at times be a challenge..Good luck doing it in a 50..

Tony

[Mr Dumble]

Hi Mr Dumble,

Hi Max, How can I help you today?

I am sorry that perhaps I did not make clear enough my question. So please let me try again to avoid misunderstandings:

Fair enough. Shoot!

AFAIR you always introduce/d and present/ed yourself here and elsewhere as someone who has a lot of practical and personal experience with a lot of different musical instruments including many different brands and specimens of guitar amps.

Correct.

And AFAIR you always introduce/d and present/ed yourself here and elsewhere as someone with a pair of extremely well trained ears to hear and to detect even the most subtle differences between the sound and tone of different amps.

In most cases, correct again. You are batting 1,000!

If all this should not be the case and just some kind of misunderstanding or prejudice of me, then please correct me.

No correction needed thus far, you have paid attention well.

But if you are the tone expert that you always claim/ed to be AFAIR, then I think you should be able to answer my question. And my question was not if you like the tone of these three clips or if you may perceive them as thin or buzzy or however.

NOT!

You must have fallen asleep while reading some of my posts then. Dunce cap for the day! I have stated over and over that even on my own clips I have fooled myself.

My question was "What kind of guitar amp or modelling device has been used?", and not "Do you like this guitar amp or modelling device which has been used for all these three recordings?"

How could I possibly tell what kind of modeling device you used, when i have never even heard or tried one? That is why I stated that I did not like the tone in any of the clips, and if one was an amp, its most likely one I would not use myself.

So please let me ask the same question (at least in my opinion) again, but in a different way to make its content perhaps a bit more clear.

Try again if you like!

Imagine this e-mail or PM:

Dear Mr Dumble,

I've read on "The Amp Garage" and the "The Gear Page" sites that you are a sound and tone expert and that you have a lot of personal experience with a lot of different guitars and guitar amps. Now I need your advice. I've been booked for a recording session. Here is a list of the recording gear which will be used for the guitar tracks.

fair enough. Continue please!

And here are three mp3 files. On these three mp3 files you hear precisely the kind of lead guitar tone that the producer wants me to achieve for this recording session.

Lucky you! Go get em!

Of course I know that you personally don’t like this kind of guitar tones. But I am a session player and have to achieve the tone the producer asks for. And he did send me these three files in order to make more clear what he wants. And I know what kind of guy this producer is and - believe me - it wouldn't be wise to argue with him regarding this.

Of course not!

So please tell me - based on your vast knowledge about the tone and sound of different guitars in combination with different guitar amps and by using your good and well trained ears - what kind of guitar amplifier you would recommend me to use for this session. I know that you don't have personal experiences with modelling amps, so please recommend just one of the many usual guitar amps you know. Thanks a lot in advance.

Best regards,

Max

Thanks for the email Max. By listening to those tones, I could very easily get them with just a fender and a few pedals. My advice to you would be to pick up a Fender HR Deluxe used ($3-400) and a few good overdrive pedals like a Fulldrive 2, TRex Mudhoney and a Ethoes if you can. bring along a chorus and a delay pedal, and with those few items and the equipment in the studio, you should be able to cover those bases with no problems at all. Best of luck, and go knock them dead!!!

I hope that this "example" perhaps makes the content of my question a bit more clear. If not, please just ask.

Yes it did. thanks for the clarification! can I help you with any other tonal problems today?

And IMO someone who has the knowledge, the experience and the good ears you always claim/ed to have should be able to answer such a kind of question.

See above.

VERY VERY VERY VERY GOOD!

[Mr Dumble]

Tag,

(you know I still love you)

I know exactly what I am saying. It is not the guitar because the tan amp does the thing it does even with the Baker. Listen to Live Jing Chi!

You have never posted anything remotely close to that tone. I have had numerous Two Rocks here and none got close. And, nobody ever has posted a TR clip that gets into the same universe.

Now you admit that you don't care for all the newer tones anyway. So, why do you boast that your basic Skyline (just like what most build) will nail all the RF tones?? It won't. I have invested thousands of hours in this and it does get my BP up when you make all these totally unsubstantiated and impossible claims. Claims I have disproven time and time again.....

You cannot get the newer (Rugged Road on) RF tones with any Two Rock I have heard or played.

You opened the door when you said that your amp nails all of them.....

Now stick to the subject. I let you post some clips and pics of your TR. Keep it on point and without the claims of superiority....

Anyone who says otherwise either has no ear or an agenda.

Damn Scott. Take a deep breath and relax. You know I have a good ear and zero agenda. You have never played an artist, and it has more than enough bottom for even the most anemic teles. Those are old Ford tones and sound nothing like his newer Blue moon and post B.moon tones which I dislike anyway. All those friggin ear splitting bright caps and cables that suck tone IMO. None of that stuff is needed for those vintage Ford tones. I stood right in front of the guy and his tones then and now are totally different. Its the guitar thats throwing you on RR, and it sounds double tracked as well. I had my Artist on top of #183 for months, and the two are EXTREMELY similar as well. Its a great amp that can be boughtcheaply if you can ever find one. No one wants to sell them!

No problems Scott, and no need to argue. Its just silly amps!! But yes Scott. It will get those tones very well. Send over a backing. Rugged road is double tracked or has some kind of effect on it. Its the Tele thats throwing you IMO. You have never played an Artist, and it is very different. there are many parts that are in line with #183. I would love to back up my claims, and it will be easy to do if I can get a backing. I am just not into putting all the time in to make one myself. My Buscarion came in and I am really into playing it right now. You have to see and try this thing!!! The later Post BM tones however I agree. They are very bright and a totally different sound than the Vintage Ford tones of which i am speaking of.

[img:390:800]http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1427/1 ... 150247.jpg[/img]

[img:695:399]http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1427/1 ... 150150.jpg[/img][/img]

[Max]

My advice to you would be to pick up a Fender HR Deluxe used ($3-400) and a few good overdrive pedals like a Fulldrive 2, TRex Mudhoney and a Ethoes if you can. bring along a chorus and a delay pedal, and with those few items and the equipment in the studio, you should be able to cover those bases with no problems at all.

Hi Mr Dumble,

thank you for your perspectives and opinions regarding the gear that would be best suited to achieve the guitar tones which you hear on these three tracks.

Have a nice Sunday,

Max

[Mr Dumble]

My advice to you would be to pick up a Fender HR Deluxe used ($3-400) and a few good overdrive pedals like a Fulldrive 2, TRex Mudhoney and a Ethoes if you can. bring along a chorus and a delay pedal, and with those few items and the equipment in the studio, you should be able to cover those bases with no problems at all.

Hi Mr Dumble,

thank you for your perspectives and opinions regarding the gear that would be best suited to achieve the guitar tones which you hear on these three tracks.

Have a nice Sunday,

Max

Glad I could help.

[Max]

Glad I could help.

Hi Mr Dumble,

please don't misunderstand me. I didn't thank you for your perspectives and opinions because I think that these could be a useful practical help for someone like this imaginary "session player" in my imaginary "e-mail example". But I think it's polite to say at least "Thank you!" if someone has tried to answer a question, even if think that the answer isn't of much other practical help than to clarify his degree of expertise and how much sense it would make to consult him again in a similar matter. Tony’s (talbany) comments regarding the guitar tone on the "Bridge Of 1000 Autumns" track as an example, which he posted here: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 920#134920 , are far more convincing IMO in regard to their expertise and quality of argumentation:

"The Solo part mp3 you posted I have to say has that 70's Classic stack kinda vibe (from what I can tell from the clip)..”

I agree also, that tone would be more indicative of the transition later 80's ... The proof for me would have to be in the focused mid range character as well as openness and articulation touch sensitive quality that to me defines that era.. The earlier 1'st and 2n'd generation amps had that quality as well but for me took on a more raw edge and a slightly different quality of breakup where the later 80's had a sort of refined smoother transition into grind..That solo to me definitely had more of that quality to my ears..

For me clips (although this is a pretty good one) can be fairly deceiving especially layered with several effects like this one so an amp that might sound a certain way sitting on the floor could sound much different at the other end of a recording so things like treble middle bass content can deliver a bit of a lie!!..I will say that quantity of midrange being the most prevalent or obvious being as that's where the guitar lives..

Things clips do reveal well are break up quality or quantity, note bloom, sustain ability, and once again quality of midrange..
These are the qualities I am hearing in the clip that I think share the same as the Dumble of that generation and the so called Dumble tone in general..

If the tone generator he used was an amp and recorded fairly flat and was a good representation of how the amp really sounds in the studio I would put that tone more in the Dumble camp than a Fender or Marshall..(The midrange here is the most powerful clue for me)I would however say that given the smoothness of the breakup I wouldn't be surprised if it were a DL or SSS as I did notice a hint of the velvet glove quality if you know what I mean.."

But perhaps my personal impression is wrong and you really are the first class tone expert you claim to be and I am just not able to recognize your quality. So I think there is no need now to discuss this further. We both have different opinions and this I deem to be rather usual in pluralistic societies and nothing personal of course anyway.

Have a great week,

Max

[makrisp]

Tag,

(you know I still love you)

I know exactly what I am saying. It is not the guitar because the tan amp does the thing it does even with the Baker. Listen to Live Jing Chi!

You have never posted anything remotely close to that tone. I have had numerous Two Rocks here and none got close. And, nobody ever has posted a TR clip that gets into the same universe.

Now you admit that you don't care for all the newer tones anyway. So, why do you boast that your basic Skyline (just like what most build) will nail all the RF tones?? It won't. I have invested thousands of hours in this and it does get my BP up when you make all these totally unsubstantiated and impossible claims. Claims I have disproven time and time again.....

You cannot get the newer (Rugged Road on) RF tones with any Two Rock I have heard or played.

You opened the door when you said that your amp nails all of them.....

Now stick to the subject. I let you post some clips and pics of your TR. Keep it on point and without the claims of superiority....

Damn Scott. Take a deep breath and relax. You know I have a good ear and zero agenda. You have never played an artist, and it has more than enough bottom for even the most anemic teles. Those are old Ford tones and sound nothing like his newer Blue moon and post B.moon tones which I dislike anyway. All those friggin ear splitting bright caps and cables that suck tone IMO. None of that stuff is needed for those vintage Ford tones. I stood right in front of the guy and his tones then and now are totally different. Its the guitar thats throwing you on RR, and it sounds double tracked as well. I had my Artist on top of #183 for months, and the two are EXTREMELY similar as well. Its a great amp that can be boughtcheaply if you can ever find one. No one wants to sell them!

No problems Scott, and no need to argue. Its just silly amps!! But yes Scott. It will get those tones very well. Send over a backing. Rugged road is double tracked or has some kind of effect on it. Its the Tele thats throwing you IMO. You have never played an Artist, and it is very different. there are many parts that are in line with #183. I would love to back up my claims, and it will be easy to do if I can get a backing. I am just not into putting all the time in to make one myself. My Buscarion came in and I am really into playing it right now. You have to see and try this thing!!! The later Post BM tones however I agree. They are very bright and a totally different sound than the Vintage Ford tones of which i am speaking of.

[img:390:800]http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1427/1 ... 150247.jpg[/img]

[img:695:399]http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1427/1 ... 150150.jpg[/img][/img]

WoW!

[Mr Dumble]

Hi Mr Dumble,

Hello again Max!
What may I help you with this time?

please don't misunderstand me. I didn't thank you for your perspectives and opinions because I think that these could be a useful practical help for someone like this imaginary "session player" in my imaginary "e-mail example". But I think it's polite to say at least "Thank you!" if someone has tried to answer a question, even if think that the answer isn't of much other practical help than to clarify his degree of expertise and how much sense it would make to consult him again in a similar matter.

Tell your imaginary friend I sent him an imaginary email, and I said thats fine with me.

Tony’s (talbany) comments regarding the guitar tone on the "Bridge Of 1000 Autumns" track as an example, which he posted here: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 920#134920 , are far more convincing IMO in regard to their expertise and quality of argumentation:

"The Solo part mp3 you posted I have to say has that 70's Classic stack kinda vibe (from what I can tell from the clip)..”

Hmmm. Well, all I can say is I played in bands all through that era with "classic stacks", and they did not sound like that to me at all. that sounded more like clips of PODS going direct that people have posted.

I agree also, that tone would be more indicative of the transition later 80's ... The proof for me would have to be in the focused mid range character as well as openness and articulation touch sensitive quality that to me defines that era.. The earlier 1'st and 2n'd generation amps had that quality as well but for me took on a more raw edge and a slightly different quality of breakup where the later 80's had a sort of refined smoother transition into grind..That solo to me definitely had more of that quality to my ears..

Sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about here.

For me clips (although this is a pretty good one) can be fairly deceiving especially layered with several effects like this one so an amp that might sound a certain way sitting on the floor could sound much different at the other end of a recording so things like treble middle bass content can deliver a bit of a lie!!.

AGREE!

.I will say that quantity of midrange being the most prevalent or obvious being as that's where the guitar lives. Things clips do reveal well are break up quality or quantity, note bloom, sustain ability, and once again quality of midrange. These are the qualities I am hearing in the clip that I think share the same as the Dumble of that generation and the so called Dumble tone in general.

I have played many Dumbles, and none (thankfully) have sounded like that to my well trained, virgin ears.

If the tone generator he used was an amp and recorded fairly flat and was a good representation of how the amp really sounds in the studio I would put that tone more in the Dumble camp than a Fender or Marshall..(The midrange here is the most powerful clue for me)I would however say that given the smoothness of the breakup I wouldn't be surprised if it were a DL or SSS as I did notice a hint of the velvet glove quality if you know what I mean..

I know what you mean, but again, it sounds like a clean amp with a pedal of some sort to me. I guess in that case it COULD be a SSS with a buzz box in front, so you have a point there.

But perhaps my personal impression is wrong

Not sure if you are "wrong", as you said, clips can be very misleading, depending on how and why they are done.

you really are the first class tone expert you claim to be

Yes, I know.

So I think there is no need now to discuss this further.

I have felt like that from the start of this imaginary argument.

[Max]

Sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about here.

Hi Mr Dumble,

Perhaps you did read my last post a bit too fast and now have perhaps some kind of misunderstanding?

I am not talking about anything "here".

What you refer to and criticise are not my comments regarding the guitar tone on the "Bridge of 1000 Autumns" track but Tony’s (talbany) comments, which he posted here https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 695#134695 and here https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 920#134920

I did only quote Tony’s comments in my last post. That is the reason why you find them in quotation marks in my post and italicised and why I added a link to them already in my last post, too.

So please understand that IMO it wouldn’t be what I would call good manners, if I now would try to explain the content of Tony’s posts. If he should want to react to your criticisms and questions regarding his comments on the guitar tone of "Bridge Of 1000 Autumns", he can and for sure will talk for himself. So please understand that I will leave any kind of reaction regarding your criticisms and questions concerning his comments up to him.

Have a nice day,

Max

[talbany]

If he should want to react to your criticisms and questions

Nah!!

regarding his comments on the guitar tone of "Bridge Of 1000 Autumns", he can and for sure will talk for himself.

For me we all hear and articulate various sounds and tone differently...My comments on the bridge of 1000 Autumns were mainly directed tword the comparison between the tone on the clip and the later transition 80's classics where I thought the similarities were..There were a few..(Maybe someone else might agree/disagree) At first I did't think to post anything about it but since there has been very little in the way of discussing the tone of the earlier classics I thought it would be a breath of fresh air than the usual later skyliners (which one sounds more like the Ford amp) that seems to dominate the Garage for years now.. Perhaps if more here would get more exposure or build more of them we would have more to talk about as these early relics really are IMHO wonderful tone generators and a blast to build & play..Strat guy's take note!!... I guess I've been here too long..

Tony

[Mr Dumble]

Sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about here.

Hi Mr Dumble,

Perhaps you did read my last post a bit too fast and now have perhaps some kind of misunderstanding?

I am not talking about anything "here".

What you refer to and criticise are not my comments regarding the guitar tone on the "Bridge of 1000 Autumns" track but Tony’s (talbany) comments, which he posted here https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 695#134695 and here https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... 920#134920

I did only quote Tony’s comments in my last post. That is the reason why you find them in quotation marks in my post and italicised and why I added a link to them already in my last post, too.

So please understand that IMO it wouldn’t be what I would call good manners, if I now would try to explain the content of Tony’s posts. If he should want to react to your criticisms and questions regarding his comments on the guitar tone of "Bridge Of 1000 Autumns", he can and for sure will talk for himself. So please understand that I will leave any kind of reaction regarding your criticisms and questions concerning his comments up to him.

Have a nice day,

Max

Yes Max. I understood what he (Tony) was talking about. It was you that I was having trouble understanding. No problems either way however. I stand by my comments. Is there anything else I can help you with now? If not, I am off to bed!

[Max]

At first I did't think to post anything about it but since there has been very little in the way of discussing the tone of the earlier classics I thought it would be a breath of fresh air than the usual later skyliners (which one sounds more like the Ford amp) that seems to dominate the Garage for years now..

Hi Tony,

thanks again for posting your comments and perspective in "The Blinded Chinese Rap" thread. We could perhaps discuss there further about this topic if you and others should be interested.

Perhaps if more here would get more exposure or build more of them we would have more to talk about as these early relics really are IMHO wonderful tone generators and a blast to build & play..Strat guy's take note!!

I agree, but IMO, as in your's, these skyline amps are great musical instruments, too, and currently are played by some of the most famous Dumble users. So it's perhaps not that surprising that people are intrigued by them.

But some players still prefer the previous classic and pre-classic amps because by a lot of different reasons they do not want that kind of "Robben Ford Signature Tone". Some players I know even find it a bit more easy to create their own timbre with one of the older circuits. They perhaps think a bit like SRV when he said in a "Guitar Player" interview:

"Some Dumbles - like the Overdrive Special - you've got to know what you're doing with them, because they'll get away from you and take you with 'em."

And indeed, if you listen to all these 70's and 80's records recorded with one of the pre-classic and classic Dumble amps of Danny Kortchmar, Steve Lukather, RF, LC, Steve Farris, Dean Parks, Carlos Rios ETC, these records often have a great lead tone but sometimes not that much of an obvious "Dumble signature sound" like Robben Ford on "Rugged Road" as an example.

Perhaps because of this I really have a hard time to find some of these 80's Dumble tracks for the "reference thread" as an example - but of course I am far away from being a tone expert and perhaps only this is the reason why I often ask myself "Is this really a Dumble what Steve Lukather (as an example) uses on this track?".

However:

This here is of course a skyline thread, that I only interrupted because I was a bit upset about this "I have good ears" claim. Perhaps because my parents still have told me: "Don't blow your own trumpet!". Sorry for that and back now to the discussion "Which amp can nail what kind of Robben Ford tone?". I will try to be a bit less touchy in the future regarding "manners" - promised.

If you and/or others should want and have the time, we could discuss Charly Bonat's "Hey Now, Hey China" tone further in "The Blinded Chinese Rap" thread. But please don't feel urged to do so. Just as and if you should perhaps have the time and some interest in such a kind of topic.

Thanks again and all the best,

Max

[Mr Dumble]

[img:390:800]http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1427/1 ... 150247.jpg[/img]

[img:695:399]http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1427/1 ... 150150.jpg[/img][/img]

WoW![/quote]


Thanks!
I got to use it yesterday live in a two piece jam, (bass and guitar) for the first time and it sounded amazing! I played acoustically with an electric bass player, and I still had plenty of volume. Only played 5-6 songs, but I think the guitar is everything i hoped it would be. It was over a 2 year wait, but well worth it I think.