Dumble & Mercury Magnetics

[butwhatif]

I don't think it makes SFD what xfr or whatever is there. Good players know how to twiddle the knobs, and articulate, far too many are still stuck on the
'amp makes the player' - wannabe land fs $.03

[erwin_ve]

I build my dumble clones by the grace of people who have been in the real deal and willingly to share it. (Thank you!)

The facts represented on this forum saved me a lot of time; f.e. chosing the right caps, resistors...
A good sounding xformer is IMO just as important as choosing the right caps.

FWIW My stock d-clone OT provided by a kit was not bad, but the MM was certainly a big upgrade and got it for a fair price from a EU based amp builder(who probably got them cheaper for large quantities orders)
Off course your opinion may differ...

[Structo]

Were you able to make an A/B comparison with a different OT before trying the MM OT?

If so, how would you describe the difference between them?

[Deric]

Were you able to make an A/B comparison with a different OT before trying the MM OT?

If so, how would you describe the difference between them?

...and, which OT was it?

[erwin_ve]

Were you able to make an A/B comparison with a different OT before trying the MM OT?

If so, how would you describe the difference between them?

...and, which OT was it?

Custom OT for the EU based ampmaker I mentioned.
Soundwise comparing to the other OT; It's like if there was a blanket removed from the cab. Tighter bass.

[bluesfendermanblues]

Were you able to make an A/B comparison with a different OT before trying the MM OT?

If so, how would you describe the difference between them?

...and, which OT was it?

Custom OT for the EU based ampmaker I mentioned.
Soundwise comparing to the other OT; It's like if there was a blanket removed from the cab. Tighter bass.

Did they measure the same???
If you change primary impedance - you'll change the sound.
And an OT with a larger core and thicker winding will sound less compressed and free compared to a smaller ditto.

[Funkalicousgroove]

Considering the source...



Howard uses MM.



Does he really need the added hype only a MM could provide his amps with?



On a side not how the heck is it "Historically Accurate" to use a brand of iron that Howard never touched?
He used all kinds of irons. Most of which you can still get one way or another.



Never once did he ever use a Heyboer that I have ever seen or even heard of.



No panty bunching though ok kids? It is not an invitation to an arguement.



Just a valid observation from my perspective and one I did not see represented.

Most of Howard/Alexander's Iron came out of another amp, Fender, Music Man, Peavey, etc. I have seen 2 Dumbles fitted with Mercury DO-100 output transformers, NO OTHER MERCURY IRON. Both built within the last 10 years, neither amp was spectacular. I have seen SEVERAL with Magic Parts Iron, several with Fender Iron(schumacher), Several with Music Man Iron(Schumacher), several with peavey (TMI or Basler).

What I find with The heyboer stuff is it is wound like the originals, using the same types of materials, styles of interleaving, etc. I find with mercury that it is not wound the same, does not use the same material, and do not sound the same.

I had alden at Heyboer check if they had ever done anything for howard or Alexander Dumble, and he said they had done a few over the years, whether or not they are in amps I do not know, but I'd imagine at some point I'll run into one. I have no reason to doubt him because he has no idea who Dumble is, but he also wouldn't tell me exactly what he ordered, said he does that for all his customers, which is a good thing.

[UltraHookedOnPhonix]

Considering the source...



Howard uses MM.



Does he really need the added hype only a MM could provide his amps with?



On a side not how the heck is it "Historically Accurate" to use a brand of iron that Howard never touched?
He used all kinds of irons. Most of which you can still get one way or another.



Never once did he ever use a Heyboer that I have ever seen or even heard of.



No panty bunching though ok kids? It is not an invitation to an arguement.



Just a valid observation from my perspective and one I did not see represented.

Most of Howard/Alexander's Iron came out of another amp, Fender, Music Man, Peavey, etc. I have seen 2 Dumbles fitted with Mercury DO-100 output transformers, NO OTHER MERCURY IRON. Both built within the last 10 years, neither amp was spectacular. I have seen SEVERAL with Magic Parts Iron, several with Fender Iron(schumacher), Several with Music Man Iron(Schumacher), several with peavey (TMI or Basler).

What I find with The heyboer stuff is it is wound like the originals, using the same types of materials, styles of interleaving, etc. I find with mercury that it is not wound the same, does not use the same material, and do not sound the same.

I had alden at Heyboer check if they had ever done anything for howard or Alexander Dumble, and he said they had done a few over the years, whether or not they are in amps I do not know, but I'd imagine at some point I'll run into one. I have no reason to doubt him because he has no idea who Dumble is, but he also wouldn't tell me exactly what he ordered, said he does that for all his customers, which is a good thing.

Interesting that you should mention that some of the Peavey iron was made by TMI. TMI was the maker of the, "TF" series of transformers that Magic Parts sold up until around 2002 or 03. This was confirmed to me by Alex Gianaras, the President of TMI. As we know many Dumble ODS amps carried this brand of transformers in the 90's. The transformers Magic Parts currently sell are still branded as the “TF Series” but comes from Marvel Electrics who makes Fender replacement transformers for the New Sensor Corporation. Disclaimer: NSC does not rely on one single OEM supplier for transformers. They are known to have been distributors of Schumacher, Magnetic Components, Pacific and Marvel Electrics.

[David Root]

Magnetic Components is owned by Marvel Electric, it seems.

[groovtubin]

It is very hard to determine if one transformer is better than another which is one reason I think MM can get away with their marketing hype and inflated pricing. My latest build has an MM Bassman tranny and 6L6 tubes and the amp sounds great. However I ran the send from that amp to another amp with an MC tranny (costing half as much) and EL-34 tubes and although their were differences, it too sounded just as good. I can say with much confidence that the transformers in THIS CASE were both capable of doing the job more than adequately and did not by themselves make or break the amp. Other factors like the tube type, couplers and PI made a larger difference than the tranny. I admit this isnt very scientific, but that is also why MM can keep us coming back because no one has really put the energy into proving or debunking the claims. So when in doubt you go with the ones that have branded themselves the best and MM has done a great job. We all THINK they are best, right? I would love to one day hook up 2-3 diffenet OTs and switch them instantly while listening.

Whit, i can say w/confidence, that i DO like the MM plexi OT in my clone, BUT, i also had a MOP100 from N sensor, that actuially had JUST a good a sound, more organic, lile less bandwidth, but good. Im` sure Howard knows HOW to tweak to diff iron!

[collinsamps]

It is very hard to determine if one transformer is better than another which is one reason I think MM can get away with their marketing hype and inflated pricing. My latest build has an MM Bassman tranny and 6L6 tubes and the amp sounds great. However I ran the send from that amp to another amp with an MC tranny (costing half as much) and EL-34 tubes and although their were differences, it too sounded just as good. I can say with much confidence that the transformers in THIS CASE were both capable of doing the job more than adequately and did not by themselves make or break the amp. Other factors like the tube type, couplers and PI made a larger difference than the tranny. I admit this isnt very scientific, but that is also why MM can keep us coming back because no one has really put the energy into proving or debunking the claims. So when in doubt you go with the ones that have branded themselves the best and MM has done a great job. We all THINK they are best, right? I would love to one day hook up 2-3 diffenet OTs and switch them instantly while listening.

Whit, i can say w/confidence, that i DO like the MM plexi OT in my clone, BUT, i also had a MOP100 from N sensor, that actuially had JUST a good a sound, more organic, lile less bandwidth, but good. Im` sure Howard knows HOW to tweak to diff iron!

If you like MM's plexi OT, try a Marstran and I doubt you'll like it so much anymore.

[groovtubin]

It is very hard to determine if one transformer is better than another which is one reason I think MM can get away with their marketing hype and inflated pricing. My latest build has an MM Bassman tranny and 6L6 tubes and the amp sounds great. However I ran the send from that amp to another amp with an MC tranny (costing half as much) and EL-34 tubes and although their were differences, it too sounded just as good. I can say with much confidence that the transformers in THIS CASE were both capable of doing the job more than adequately and did not by themselves make or break the amp. Other factors like the tube type, couplers and PI made a larger difference than the tranny. I admit this isnt very scientific, but that is also why MM can keep us coming back because no one has really put the energy into proving or debunking the claims. So when in doubt you go with the ones that have branded themselves the best and MM has done a great job. We all THINK they are best, right? I would love to one day hook up 2-3 diffenet OTs and switch them instantly while listening.

Whit, i can say w/confidence, that i DO like the MM plexi OT in my clone, BUT, i also had a MOP100 from N sensor, that actuially had JUST a good a sound, more organic, lile less bandwidth, but good. Im` sure Howard knows HOW to tweak to diff iron!

If you like MM's plexi OT, try a Marstran and I doubt you'll like it so much anymore.

Thank you! I`ve heard NUTHIN but good @ him!!

jp

[talbany]

I am confused!!
In reading the post by Ultra This one

I put one of those in at your recommendation a while back Brandon, and it’s a very cool OT. Very revealing, open sound. I guess that’s what you get when you slap some Hi-Fi iron in! Very Happy

He states he bought a Transformer from your recommendation a rather expensive one too and liked it.Very Happy

And later you state this

I buy 25 transformers before I even have my morning OJ, the mercury prices are OUTRAGEOUS, and IMHO they don't sound very good.

Did you get a bad batch..I buy quite a few transformers from them and would be curious to know if they are going SOUTH!!.
I hear no changes...

On a side note.. I purchased one of their 100w Plexi OPT.. The Tone Clone w/ original thick solid core secondary leads and thought it sounded a bit better than the NS 100 replacement..BUT!! For the money makes it a real tough call for me now( Just that transformer)...If someone requests it w/the extra 5 year warranty..I'll put it in... Otherwise stock is NS...As far as the tonal aspect of the MM vrs Heybors..This is my conclusion...

As for the MM vrs Heybors... I've built quite a few D-Style amps with Heybor Iron for customers pinching penny's that have turned out sounding just as good but never better than the MM..I've built amps with the MM that sound better than the Heybors and never one that sounds worse.. If this makes any sense...I've built amps using good quality transformers Drake, Schumacher, Partridge, Ampeg, but are used that sound better to me than a MM... Used transformers are more hit or miss with the likely hood of misuse but get a good one that's had some hours on it and has smoothed out nicely can make a rather large difference.

Tony

[Funkalicousgroove]

Are we on some planet where folks aren't allowed to hear better things and must stick to Opinions from 2 or 3 years ago? The DO-100 is good Iron, and I used to have one in my personal amp. Since then I have had the guys at heyboer wind me the same iron (1 off, cost me $102 vs the MM @ over $300) and found it sweeter. Same with the other stuff I use, I tend to hear the MM stuff as stiff and flat, YMMV.

I think it was 2 or so years ago I was into the DO-100, and FWIW it's the only mercury iron I've seen in a Dumble.

How I arrived at that DO-100 was in a conversation with paul at MM, Long before I was building amps for sale on a regular basis I did some horse trading with a fellow, and part of the swap for me building him an amp was a set of Transformers. the fellow I had built the amp for Knew Paul, and paul hooked him up with the Trannies Dumble had ordered from him ( A low power twin PT, DO-100, FTBM 2.84H) and I built 2 amps out of them after Paul convinced me that these were the way to go. Since then I have tried many trannies, and I found that for the money there are better values in transformers, and to my ears better sounding transformers.

How my recommendation came up on the DO-100 is a fellow (Tomo) asked which Mercury to use, and I said use the DO-100. It is the only Mercury I've seen in a dumble.

Look-My word is not gospel, and I don't owe anyone anything, Someone asked for an opinion on Mercury Trannies and I gave my opinion. I'm just a guy who has worked on Carlton's Dumbles, Santana's Dumbles, one of Robben's dumbles, and a few privately owned dumbles, and I can tell you what I have seen in them- I have also played them firsthand, and made direct comparisons to my own amps. Use the iron you like, I'm sick of arguing with people about it.

[JD0x0]

who cares what HAD used. If you find trannys that work for your pocket and your ear use them. Im using Hammond and webers for my build since theyre easy on the pocket and seem to get good tonal results.

What people seem to forget is that who built the tranny is pretty insignificant, it's more about the specs that affects the sound.


Edit: has anyone ever used Partridge AKA Hiwatt transformers in their D-clones? I've heard they're supposed to be some of the best trannys out there