Is this a builders forum or the gear page??

[dogears]

Well, don't know why you'd call Andy a lurker. He does post here. He also is privy to all this stuff so if he choses to use it, then so be it. We do talk...

To me whats hilarious is tha the BIG companys LURK here.....and are KNOWN to lurk here.......your next big find may end up in two rock or a fuchs..lol!

checks in the mail...

[odourboy]

Well, don't know why you'd call Andy a lurker. He does post here. He also is privy to all this stuff so if he choses to use it, then so be it. We do talk...

To me whats hilarious is tha the BIG companys LURK here.....and are KNOWN to lurk here.......your next big find may end up in two rock or a fuchs..lol!

checks in the mail...

I agree! Andy was an enormously help to me on my first project. He freely shared his time and expertise knowing there was nothing in it for him other than goodwill. (And I can say the same about many other members of this forum.)

TR... hmmmm.

[Tonefishin]

I come here because I want to build an amp. Please let me know if hobby first-timers are a nuisance here.

I've been on the Gear Page for a year and a half. When I first joined TGP I refused to post about anything that was not gear related and only to post when I had a relevant contribution or a question. I thought that it was silly to have a "Pub" and I thought the people that posted there needed to get a life.

Then I started getting "suckered" in by some of the thread title punchlines, followed by spending WAAAAAY too much time in the Pub. I also found that a lot of people were only there to cause trouble. Now I'm trying to move away from that time-sink to something more productive.

It is good to have a forum that stays on focus and I firmly believe that you don't pollute a well you want to drink from. I am a technical person and I believe that diving into a DIY amp project would be a great hobby pursuit. I look forward to it. My only fear is that it would take away from my guitar playing time....as I tend to become fully immersed in projects.

I am about to get enthralled here and I look forward to learning from you. Cheers!

[nickt]

I come here because I want to build an amp. Please let me know if hobby first-timers are a nuisance here.

Haven't seen any serious newbie bashing so I'd suggest not.

Have seen a lot of "maybe a Dumble is a bad idea for a first project - try a 5E3/18watt/Champ first". Good advice but folks who do bite off more than they can chew still get helped heaps with no snide comments. Some of the most senior guys here are the most helpful - which is what makes this place so great.

AX84 is a pretty good site for total beginners but if you're metalhead averse here is probably the only place on the net worth hanging out.

Best wishes - Now stop being such a nuisance!

[Richie]

I've been on a few amp forums over the years,and the one thing that is a turn off for help,is when a newbie comes in with an attitude, and asks for all the information,and gets mad if someone doesn't post the answers in 30 mins.
like someone is just sitting there waiting to do all this work for them.

But not all are like that, if your polite,and sincere,i think you'll get more help that way. And if your new to amp building, sometimes its best to mention that. No one will think less of you,and everyone was a newbie once themselves. And everyone makes mistakes.
It might help someone that is explaining something, to put it in a way the new person might understand it easier,without confusing them.
No matter if you are experienced,or just learning,you have to remember,all this info on these amps, just didn't pop out of thin air.

It has been years, of people looking at the amps,like dumbles and wrecks to pass on or share the information. Or may have tried experimenting etc. Its like pandoras box was opened.
The thing is,if people help each other,it makes it alot easier.
For example, maybe a person doesn't know anything about electronics..but owns one of the amps your trying to get info on. they share some pics of it. that can be a great help.
Or if a new guy is just learning the amp stuff,and is already a PC whiz. He might be able to draw layouts and schematics,or faceplates,or chassis layouts. It also might help them learn what the parts do,or the flow of the signal.
Or like Glen did with recording his wreck,and sharing those clips for people to know what the amps were like.
Woodworkers also help,building the cabs. Or people like Brian Wallace sharing his marshall transformer info that took years to collect.
I know i'm straying here, but you get the idea. There are many ways of helping.
And once the newbies learn,you might find down the road,they will help others starting.

[playloud]

Hi all. I am a newbie to this forum, and am here to learn about Dumble amps and why they work, why they sound the way they do, why they sustain, etc etc. Like some of you, maybe one day I will be able to wire up an amp from scratch that I can use on gigs, and that sounds the end. My greatest weaknesses right now are my general ignorance about how circuits work, what parts do what in a specific circuit, how tone is shaped by different components, and finding (and making) time to pursue all of this!

a little about me ...

I bought an Accomplice Jr Allen amp kit exactly a year ago, and it is still in the bubble wrap, untouched, because of my general lack of free time. Don't want to open it up until I have several "free" weeks of time to work on it. Have not put an amp together - YET - but I will one day, hopefully sooner than later! I have constructed a self designed solid mahogany combo cabinet for a one-of Jim Kelley 6L6 head. Holds the Kelley and a 10 inch JBL. Also put together two separate speaker cabs, for EVM 12L and 15L spkrs.

So my experience hasn't yet included actually wiring up an amp. Also, have been playing guitar since 1966 and play full time (plus teach math in middle school). I guess I have been more of a player than a builder over the years.

I am here to learn. Thanks.

Joe
Miami, Florida

[Doug H]

One good thing about this thread is it makes me realize I'm not alone, because I've been feeling it too. I've been a member since the yahoo days but was away for a couple years. There has been a decrease in SNR since I came back, partially due to growing pains as Omar mentioned, partially due to the TGP influence, etc.

The thing is, this is not really hard to fix. Nobody needs to be excluded. People just need to be conscientious about what they are posting and where they are posting it. For example, keep the discussions about bikes & bullshit out of the amp forums and in the garage where they belong. Keep in mind what this forum is about when you are posting- building amps and learning.

No need for heavy moderation or exclusivity- just be respectful of the purpose of this forum and these problems will sort themselves out.

[Lonely Raven]

I hope I don't fall into the talks too much and not about building catagory.

Is there room for someone like me who is simply a paint by numbers amp builder who's trying to learn this stuff in his "spare" time?

[Funkalicousgroove]

Hi all. I am a newbie to this forum, and am here to learn about Dumble amps and why they work, why they sound the way they do, why they sustain, etc etc. Like some of you, maybe one day I will be able to wire up an amp from scratch that I can use on gigs, and that sounds the end. My greatest weaknesses right now are my general ignorance about how circuits work, what parts do what in a specific circuit, how tone is shaped by different components, and finding (and making) time to pursue all of this!

a little about me ...

I bought an Accomplice Jr Allen amp kit exactly a year ago, and it is still in the bubble wrap, untouched, because of my general lack of free time. Don't want to open it up until I have several "free" weeks of time to work on it. Have not put an amp together - YET - but I will one day, hopefully sooner than later! I have constructed a self designed solid mahogany combo cabinet for a one-of Jim Kelley 6L6 head. Holds the Kelley and a 10 inch JBL. Also put together two separate speaker cabs, for EVM 12L and 15L spkrs.

So my experience hasn't yet included actually wiring up an amp. Also, have been playing guitar since 1966 and play full time (plus teach math in middle school). I guess I have been more of a player than a builder over the years.

I am here to learn. Thanks.

Joe
Miami, Florida

Joe,

Those Allen Kits are a great place to cut your teeth, i built one when I was first starting out, I still play it to this day (although heavily modded by now) His instructions are clear and easy to follow, and they REALLY don't take weeks, Just a couple weekends. The thing to do is practice soldering, and stripping wire before you dig in, then go for it!!

Funk

[Luthierwnc]

I am one of the "build an easier amp first" guys but making any amp is much, much better than not making one. As long as you respect the safety rules for these voltages, the worst that happens is that it doesn't work and you have to work on it more. As you can tell, some people make one that works perfectly and still have to work on it more.

I am also one of the "avoid paralysis by analysis" guys too. You have probably also figured out that nobody builds one that is exactly what they want for each guitar, venue, genre, cab, band, gig, girlfriend, blah blah blah. If you make any of several well-documented amps, you will have a shit-kickin rig. At that point, you will be in a stronger position to make adjustments.

Some advice I got a long time ago was, "Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." If you aren't afraid to mess up, you can get good pretty quickly.

Skip

['67_Plexi]

To me whats hilarious is tha the BIG companys LURK here.....and are KNOWN to lurk here.......your next big find may end up in two rock or a fuchs..lol!

checks in the mail...

Next big find ? That made me smile, this is tube audio not rocket science or finding a cure for AIDS. I think the last of the big finds were made over 50 years ago.
If a 'big find' is pics of another degooped Dumble, I don't think that would be of much interest to most pro builders on here. I could be wrong.

However I do share the view that the there are some that lurk in the wings that haven't got an original thought in their head. I know who they are and you probably do to.

I make no bones that I have found useful information on here and moreso have gained some friends such as Scott. On the flip side I have tried to input information back in that I think people may find useful or interesting.

[ayan]

are and you probably do to.

I make no bones that I have found useful information on here and moreso have gained some friends such as Scott. On the flip side I have tried to input information back in that I think people may find useful or interesting.

To me, the point being made is: has anyone made any new business, rather than has anyone made any new friends. Generally speaking, to me the answer is a loud yes. A simple rhetorical question to a few companies out there: would they be in business were it not for some degooped Dumble they or someone else stumbled upon? I am pretty happy with my answer to that one because I have been watching this thing unfold for longer than probably just every single person on this board.

I don't see absolutely anything wrong with anyone/everyone making a business out of it. What I find astounding, to this day, is the notion that some people suggest they are not cloners and that Dumble didn't come up with anything himself because it was all in the RCA tube manuals. Dumble may have started as a Fender cloner, but he went waaaayyyy further than Fender ever did. Of all the "Dumble insipired" amps out there, I don't believe there is a single one which isn't a "clone" at this point still.

Cheers,

Gil

[skyboltone]

I don't see absolutely anything wrong with anyone/everyone making a business out of it. What I find astounding, to this day, is the notion that some people suggest they are not cloners and that Dumble didn't come up with anything himself because it was all in the RCA tube manuals. Dumble may have started as a Fender cloner, but he went waaaayyyy further than Fender ever did. Of all the "Dumble insipired" amps out there, I don't believe there is a single one which isn't a "clone" at this point still.

Cheers,

Gil

Woohoo. Amen brother.

['67_Plexi]

For me the answer lays in the middle Gil. I WAS building amps way long before I'd even heard of a Dumble, actually long before the www existed. The days when the only way to get a schematic of anything was to write to the Companies and prove you were qualified to work on their gear.
Before moving over to the model of just building amps I WAS in business justing doing mods and repairs and building the odd custom amp. Most of my work prior to the current amps was pretty much Marshall based stuff. I came from the north of England where at the time Parks, Voxes and Marshalls were really all you ever saw. So even today the Marshall influence is predominant. I was using what you guys called the 'Blues Master' style PI and OP stage in the HRM circuit before anyone posted it on here. Scott could verify that. Not because I invented it, but simply because I liked the way it sounded in a Marshall circuit with EL34's.

Anyway on the flip side there were two things that kick started my amp lines. The first was I was contracted to run FOH for Joe Bonamassa. I asked Joe if he wanted to try an amp out and he said yes and ended up buying two. The second was being contacted by Matte Henderson. Things just moved on from there.

As for the amps. As I said earlier, I make no bones that information I came across on the internet (including this site) helped in many ways. The early OD100 amps were pretty much clones of an HRM EL34 style amp. I moved it a little further away with the OD2, now using a steel chassis mounted the other way around (because of heat issues associated with all these designs, including real Dumbles). I also made a few changes to the OD eq circuit and mounted the controls on the front and bypassing the clean eq automatically. This amp is now to the HRM what a Plexi is to a '59 Bassman.
Moving further on I developed the Tucana which is a 2xKT88 3 channel amp that is even more diluted. This is now to the HRM what the SLO is to a '59 Bassman.

The point I make is that the information on here and elsewhere is just that information, you use it however you want....it's not a definitive end. Creating a complete clone of a Dumble right down to the last screws interests me about as much as doing my taxes. If I base my business on the work of another, I am restricted by the boundaries already put in place by that person.
I know there are Companies out there that do and good luck to them. The brighter ones are diversifying now. Some haven't got the ability to however. My amp range extends way beyond work based on the big guy.

I owe most of my knowledge not to the internet, but to the guys who taught me many years ago as an apprentice.

So back to your rhetorical question...Absolutely this site has been really useful and the work of guys like yourself and Scott has also been really helpful and the fact that I was introduced to the gain staging used in a Dumble amp opened a lot of doors, but never was the end point to create an amp that cloned Robben Fords tones !! The further I can get away from that the better.

Personally I think what Dumble did for me was perfect the gain staging of cascaded design with the perfect balance of compression and dynamic range with a low noise floor. This circuit was the HRM. Anything non-HRM or earlier I see as a stepping stone towards this. Other companies such as Boogie were on to this at the same time, but Dumble made the transition to the perfect overdrive tone, they didn't. He also managed to massage a really convincing clean tone from an EL34.
I proudly take these two things away and use them in my own amps and thank those who helped make this information public, especially you and Scott as I mentioned earlier.
If you wish to call me a cloner, thats fine, I've been called much worse and from some of the same people that actually participate on this very forum, although they probably thought I didn't know.

All the best, Alan.

are and you probably do to.

I make no bones that I have found useful information on here and moreso have gained some friends such as Scott. On the flip side I have tried to input information back in that I think people may find useful or interesting.

To me, the point being made is: has anyone made any new business, rather than has anyone made any new friends. Generally speaking, to me the answer is a loud yes. A simple rhetorical question to a few companies out there: would they be in business were it not for some degooped Dumble they or someone else stumbled upon? I am pretty happy with my answer to that one because I have been watching this thing unfold for longer than probably just every single person on this board.

I don't see absolutely anything wrong with anyone/everyone making a business out of it. What I find astounding, to this day, is the notion that some people suggest they are not cloners and that Dumble didn't come up with anything himself because it was all in the RCA tube manuals. Dumble may have started as a Fender cloner, but he went waaaayyyy further than Fender ever did. Of all the "Dumble insipired" amps out there, I don't believe there is a single one which isn't a "clone" at this point still.

Cheers,

Gil

[Fischerman]

Next big find ? That made me smile, this is tube audio not rocket science or finding a cure for AIDS. I think the last of the big finds were made over 50 years ago.
If a 'big find' is pics of another degooped Dumble, I don't think that would be of much interest to most pro builders on here. I could be wrong.

I think it's safe to say that there are at least two camps on the de-gooped pics and knowing every little detail of real Dumbles. Some want to know every little detail and some are not really all that interested in the fine details. Or at least...not interested in the 'cloning' sense but perhaps interested in a 'maybe I'll learn something' sense.

I'm not a pro builder and I'm not really interested in any de-gooped pics or fine details of any Dumbles other than those that I might learn something from. Making clones just isn't what interests me. My first foray into the ODS design had the HRM controls on the front panel and the clean tonestack automatically bypassed (something I thought of independantly but obv was not alone...seems like such a natural progression)...as well as just using a typical one-button footswitch w/LED. My first from-scratch Express had power scaling.

I also think that some new/different OD entrance network (for example) doesn't qualify as the 'next big find'...that's just the simple stuff that we all can mess around with (although some better than others ).

The 'next big find'? We guitar players are still using vacuum tubes...we no likey 'next big finds'.