I agree. I got home after Jason's and tried retubing. I do not have the Svets but I have the Tung Sols which are the same factory. They were a little more open than my Winged Cs which were way more open than my Siemens. I then ordered a set of the new fat bottle JJ 6CA7s. These babies really woke her up..... Much fuller and clearer, still with the EL34 throatiness!! Definate keepers....
I think you would really notice a massive difference with the amp all retubed. What a difference.
Mr Dumble wrote:
dogears wrote:So, I swapped out the Siemens EL34s in my 183 amp with both my Winged C EL34 and Tung Sol New Sensor EL34.
The Siemens were dull and congested. There was a massive difference between tubes. I recall Tag not liking the Siemens when installed in 183. He also did not care for my 183 when we got together.
I can safely say that now with the Winged C installed (most of my clips of the Phat Momma had them in there) the amp is much less congested on the bottom. When we compared at Tag's, the Phat Momma had a lack of low end clarity. All returned now with the Winged C EL34s.
Lastly, I removed the bright cap on the master. Now, there is much more of the high end compression that the real 183 and Tag's TKT possess. The bright cap adds a lot of clarity to the top, but removes some of the straining/phasing caused by the loop cables. Even Tags amp had dramatically less of that when we removed his cables to the Trex. Much brighter and less of that compression.
Pinner was over while I tweaked. He can corroborate the differences.
In the end, we all like what we like. I just get really ticked when people BS about certain builders being superior or possessing hidden magic. It is all in the tweaking provided the build is solid.
I look forward to my next Tag gathering. Gonna bring the Ojai! Still my fave......
Scott,
I would love to see what happened if you put some Svetlanas in there. Thats what was in my amp when you were here. Unless these winged Cs are just bad (i doubt it), the Svetlanas are just better in ever area. If you have a chance, would love to see what you think of them in the GW. They may REALLY open that amp up. Thats what seems to be happening in my TKT at least.
dogears wrote:I agree. I got home after Jason's and tried retubing. I do not have the Svets but I have the Tung Sols which are the same factory. They were a little more open than my Winged Cs which were way more open than my Siemens. I then ordered a set of the new fat bottle JJ 6CA7s. These babies really woke her up.....
Scott, are you talking about switching from TS 6L6s to the 6CA7s and having the tone open up, or were you switching from EL-34s. I got lost in there somewhere...
dogears wrote:I agree. I got home after Jason's and tried retubing. I do not have the Svets but I have the Tung Sols which are the same factory. They were a little more open than my Winged Cs which were way more open than my Siemens. I then ordered a set of the new fat bottle JJ 6CA7s. These babies really woke her up.....
Scott, are you talking about switching from TS 6L6s to the 6CA7s and having the tone open up, or were you switching from EL-34s. I got lost in there somewhere...
From Mike at KCA regarding Winged C 6L6's
"Winged C SED 6L6GC - Same tubes as the pre 2001 Svetlanas, made in St. Petersburg Russia, but branded SED. These are the real deal. If you see "Svetlanas" for less, they may be ones from the Reflector factory which are not of the same quality level."
Scott you think the SED's are not the same as the old Winged C's and prefer Svetlanas? Don't know what to choose for my new 100W non HRM
Correct. I was referring to the winged c, not the new sensor svetlanas.
All the current ones I have seen are very very low on transconductance and gain. Out of spec actually. Mike K keeps arguing with me that it is ok since some like that. I argue that they are 10% under spec. Bad is bad.......
You have to measure them and compare them to a good sounding set or a reference tube or use a calibrated tube tester. That's how it's done. This is the easy way. The hard way is to keep buying sets until you find one that sounds good.
Some tube sellers use the maximatcher that Scott uses. To my knowledge this device is pretty well matched from unit to unit such that customers can provide specs to tube sellers that have these tube testers.
Johan, I have to second what Jelle says, I know it is difficult until you can find someone who can measure them. I have used a Maximatcher for several years, even though I don't sell tubes.
Once you do get there, you need to know how hard or soft you want your power tubes. Some vendors use a 1-10 scale. 1-3 is soft, 4-6 is medium (middle of bell curve?) 7-9 is hard, forget about 10!.
I have used 8s and they work well in Dumbles, but you generally have to redesign your bias supply to provide much more negative bias voltages.
For example, I just finished a Bluesmaster w/4x6L6GA, all JAN CHS Sylvania. I had two pairs, one pair from '43, '45, very soft, 20 mA each on the Maximatcher at 400V and -48V bias and one pair from the '50s, very hard, close to 30 mA each at -60V bias!!! Try to find a matched quad, forget it! Separate bias pot for each pair was essential also, obviously.
Hard = Max Headroom, remember him from the '80s? High current, often (ideally) higher than average transconductance. I like these in Dumbles but I'd never use them in Tweeds. Soft is low current, early distortion. Better for amps that excel or are designed for power tube distortion to get their tone, like Tweeds and Plexis. (Make sure you have good OTs (M6 vs M27 laminations) or these will mush up when you crank them).
