My Dumble archive

[sidehatch]

I'm glad I saw this . I was going to buy that asshat's book.

Jesse, You wont see a cent of my money nor any of my friends money.

Talk about screwing yourself.

[butwhatif]

I think the Dumble disease is contiguous!!!! In a few short months Jessie has gone from publishing a book to trying to extort money and to maintain a dominion over images and information.

I have a friend who is a public defender and I asked him once if he ever asked is clients if they were guilty. His response was, "that's irrelevant, its not whether someone is guilty or innocent it's what can you prove in court" This is the nature of these things. If someone reproduced an image that was clearly marked "copyright" then provided that the copyright is still valid then they are liable and action could be taken against them. To win in court Jessie would have to prove that he was the copyright holder, the poster knew they were infringing on copyright, did not respond to a "confirmed receipt" (that means real paper signed for at delivery) of a cease and desist order and if he wants to win anything how he was financially hurt and the poster financially benefited.

What typically happens in these things is that after a lot of saber rattling and dick measuring things go away or legal action is taken. Unfortunately, even if the person suing you is dead wrong you'll spend thousands proving your innocence.

One thing troubling me in this thread is the amount of personal character assassination HAD has received here. It's clear that there are those among us who think of this forum as a tribute to HAD and his work. There those who find it difficult to comprehend HAD's attitude regarding what he perceives as his property. These are just our perceptions and opinions, we are entitled to them. IMO, HAD is also entitled to have his own opinions. Just because we may not understand or agree with them doesn't give us license to question his sanity or to inferring that his behavior is sociopathic.

If HAD truly had trademark and copyright protections for his original work and his expansions of traditional tube circuits I think is likely that he would take legal action against those who have used the information in this forum and from studying his products because they are profiting from his work. Even without trademark and copyright HAD could cause a lot more trouble than he does. One of the only trademarks that Gibson and Fender really own is that to the shape of the head stocks on the guitars. That didn't stop Gibson for locking down PRS in two years of ligation over the "singlecut".

Personally, I think HAD views himself as an artist not a technician. Many artists who have an impact on the world struggle with the rewards they receive monetarily for that impact. Eddie Van Halen changed the way that electric guitar was played in the late seventies. Yet, apparently he felt burned by Music Man, Charvel and Peavey. He says that his current deal with Fender is the first one he's happy with. Like Van Halen, Hendrix and many of the great artists of the twentieth century, HAD has contributed and "original idea" into the world. Whether he did so by rearranging parts or the order of parts is irrelevant as he thought of doing that and created something that hadn't been seen or heard before.

For than alone he has earned my respect.

Whew, sorry for the rant but someone has to say these things

eric

Your post is extremely right on, thanks. My sentiment completely, but i'm not as eloquent. And the man is to be thanked for his work in creating the beast that we all love. That's not to say that it's the pinnacle of success, i think, maybe for him, no man an island but unto himself. I would hate to see the end of the discussion of this stuff because someone thought they owned it all. Hopefully down the road there will be a morph in this thread about improving, evolving on what we have, beyond the clones and remarketing of known ideas. Makin new music, with new sounds, no?

[BobW]

I think the Dumble disease is contiguous!!!! In a few short months Jessie has gone from publishing a book to trying to extort money and to maintain a dominion over images and information.

I have a friend who is a public defender and I asked him once if he ever asked is clients if they were guilty. His response was, "that's irrelevant, its not whether someone is guilty or innocent it's what can you prove in court" This is the nature of these things. If someone reproduced an image that was clearly marked "copyright" then provided that the copyright is still valid then they are liable and action could be taken against them. To win in court Jessie would have to prove that he was the copyright holder, the poster knew they were infringing on copyright, did not respond to a "confirmed receipt" (that means real paper signed for at delivery) of a cease and desist order and if he wants to win anything how he was financially hurt and the poster financially benefited.

What typically happens in these things is that after a lot of saber rattling and dick measuring things go away or legal action is taken. Unfortunately, even if the person suing you is dead wrong you'll spend thousands proving your innocence.

One thing troubling me in this thread is the amount of personal character assassination HAD has received here. It's clear that there are those among us who think of this forum as a tribute to HAD and his work. There those who find it difficult to comprehend HAD's attitude regarding what he perceives as his property. These are just our perceptions and opinions, we are entitled to them. IMO, HAD is also entitled to have his own opinions. Just because we may not understand or agree with them doesn't give us license to question his sanity or to inferring that his behavior is sociopathic.

If HAD truly had trademark and copyright protections for his original work and his expansions of traditional tube circuits I think is likely that he would take legal action against those who have used the information in this forum and from studying his products because they are profiting from his work. Even without trademark and copyright HAD could cause a lot more trouble than he does. One of the only trademarks that Gibson and Fender really own is that to the shape of the head stocks on the guitars. That didn't stop Gibson for locking down PRS in two years of ligation over the "singlecut".

Personally, I think HAD views himself as an artist not a technician. Many artists who have an impact on the world struggle with the rewards they receive monetarily for that impact. Eddie Van Halen changed the way that electric guitar was played in the late seventies. Yet, apparently he felt burned by Music Man, Charvel and Peavey. He says that his current deal with Fender is the first one he's happy with. Like Van Halen, Hendrix and many of the great artists of the twentieth century, HAD has contributed and "original idea" into the world. Whether he did so by rearranging parts or the order of parts is irrelevant as he thought of doing that and created something that hadn't been seen or heard before.

For than alone he has earned my respect.

Whew, sorry for the rant but someone has to say these things

eric

Your post is extremely right on, thanks. My sentiment completely, but i'm not as eloquent. And the man is to be thanked for his work in creating the beast that we all love. That's not to say that it's the pinnacle of success, i think, maybe for him, no man an island but unto himself. I would hate to see the end of the discussion of this stuff because someone thought they owned it all. Hopefully down the road there will be a morph in this thread about improving, evolving on what we have, beyond the clones and remarketing of known ideas. Makin new music, with new sounds, no?

I agree, very well said Deric.
This Jesse guy will eventually go away, with his tail tucked in, w/ nothing to really prove. Our forum will continue to build amps, and celebrate/discuss HADs genius.

[jelle]

Personally, I think HAD views himself as an artist not a technician.

I would not be surprised if that is the case. I personally see him as an artist and I feel that he is an extremely talented ampbuilder and I thank him for the inspiration that his work is for me.

[Nigel Tufnel]

No worries man, the court system may be after legal fees no matter what but lawyers are not. He may be able to find some bottom feeder who will take on the case for whatever he can milk out of it in fees but it seems like one that would be impossible to get past a judge much less a jury. Lawyers usually only take cases that they can win or get notoriety from, neither applies in your case. Those emails sounds more and more like a mobster racket as they go on, I could put it no better than some of the posters before me, tell him to pound sand! Actually say nothing as some cooler heads stated as well, he will vanish into thin air because he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

[VacuumVoodoo]

Why bother composing long responses to this kind of accusations? Just send them this link:
http://www.chillingeffects.org/resource ... ourceID=31

It usually shuts them up. There was a "name infringement" dispute on another forum some time ago, after that link was posted both parties involved did shut up.

To clarify, that dispute WAS NOT about who had the right to my first name and correct spelling of it , or whether changing ones first name to one belonging to someone else later in life constitutes an infringement on any law or not.

However, I may take whole of Germany to EU tribunal for making ridicule of my last name. The damn krauts made my last name to mean "nobody" in German. It has been our family name ever since my ancestor fled Spain during the Inquisition.

[Mark]

The book looks very ordinary from the sample pages.

No new content that interested me.

[nickm57]

http://www.chillingeffects.org/resource ... ourceID=31

wonderful...

[M Fowler]

Reminds me of the song Achy Breaky Heart and who actually wrote the song. Both parties claim they did.

[peter0184]

Hi everyone,

I am one of the Dumble amp owners, who helped Jesse Schwarz put the Dumble Book together.
I think Amp Garage is a great place for people who want to find more information and help on how to build and change/customize amps.

But I must say that some of the posts/comments and information found here at Amgarage about the Dumble Book and on Jesse personally, have really been twisted.
The aggrsssive/hostile attitude of some here is ridiculous.

And thats why I'm writing my little post here.

Jesse probably won't be to pleased about me writing this stuff here, but I think it's about time somebody tells the other side of the story.
I've known Jesse for many years, and he's a nice person. Personally I think he would've been wiser to invest his money in stocks, than in a book. But he released/published it for Dumble fans and not to become rich.

I pretty sure that whatever I will write here, most likely won't change most of your one track minds, but I'll try my luck anyway.
There's always hope...

So here are my comments.

Dear Rob Livesey:

Jesse asked you kindly to remove the pictures, which are his property. He didn't "demand" it. He said "please".
He could've written it completely different, like asking you to remove them by so and so and if not, you would have to pay a copyright fee. But he didn't. So to me it's just a normal business letter.
You on the other hand could've asked Jesse if you could keep the pictures on your site, and you would acknowledge their copyright, or maybe even a link to his site. Who knows, he might've agreed.

Jesse told me that you wrote back to him and assured him that you took the pictures off your site. And he then wrote back to you and thanked you for doing so.

Excuse me for saying this: but that was a scam! You lied to Jesse and you didn't do a damn thing. Nothing has changed on your website. Please tell all of us here, why are you playing such a strange game?

I also have to tell you that you have made a couple of heavy mistakes:

You said: "I lifted that stuff off the net in the first place"! Now why would somebody admit something like that?

You have posted a complete (not just a quote) and official letter without permission!

And you are making fun about a third person! This is definitely not the right way to deal with Jesse or any other person.

And finally a couple of years ago you offered Jesse some pictures for the book off your website, but Jesse only used and bought stuff that was legal. And you even made fun of that. Not a very good move for a university teacher, which I believe you are?

My advice, try to straighten things out with Jesse.


Dear Bluesfendermanblues:

Jesse complained about a b&w picture of Howard Dumble and Christopher Cross, not about the Cab pictures. Please read Rob Livesey's post again! And I probably should say this as well, Jesse wrote to the eBay seller, twice, no answer, no change and as it didn't sell, they reinstalled their eBay ad. Now, they're saying that they were away for 10 days....come on, if you put an ad on eBay, you don't go away for 10 days?? At least you check your emails...


Dear Allyn Meyers:

The reason Jesse never replied to you, is because may I say it as politily as I can: you like to write very aggressive and unfriendly emails. And you also made fun of the book several times, without really knowing anything about it.

About your Rob Livesey post/comment:

I'm sorry to tell you this, but it is not about profit...

About the use of the picture:

Jesse wrote an email to you and he asked you kindly to "please remove the picture"

You wrote/twisted his words into: "he contacted me demanding...."

You know there is a difference.

It is also interesting to read that you like to act over and over again as if you were a lawyer...are you?

Sorry, but are you perhaps just overworked or forgotten your manners?


Dear Funkalicousgroove or Mr. Bludotone,

Jesse didn't threaten anyone.
Where did you get that nonsense that a picture is public domain after 25 years?
Even you wanted to sell Jesse some pictures a couple of years ago, but he didn't want all of them.
And you got real rude about it. Just like you do here so many times.

Sir, I don't know much about your company, but please tell me are your amplifiers original designs, or are you just trying to copy certain Dumble amps? If yes, have you succeeded? I'm asking you this because at least the pictures I have seen of your amplifiers, they all do look like the Dumble design.

If they are Dumble clones, may I ask you (to return your question to Jesse) what qualifies you to use (steal) Howard Alexander Dumble's ideas?

And may I return your civilized and polite words to Jesse: why don't you pound sand.


Dear Robert:

You wrote: I am no attorney. However, I can't believe a legitimate notice of a copyright violation would be sent via email.

Why not? Jesse could've went straight to a lawyer and have him write a typical rude lawyers letter to Rob Livesey.
Not to forget with a bill, but he didn't want to do that.

Again, all of you are twisting this whole matter out of proportion. Read my first sentence to Rob Livesey again.

Dear Dreric:

You wrote: In a few short months Jessie has gone from publishing a book to trying to extort money and to maintain a dominion over images and information.

Heavy stuff! Give us some REAL examples. By the way if you buy something legally with a contract, then it's usually yours. And everybody naturally will try his best to protect his own. There is no proof whatsoever that Jesse has sued or taken anybody to court, yet alone extort money. Again, this whole thing has gotten out of proportion.
You shouldn't make those kind of accusations.

Thanks for reading ... sorry if I stepped on anybodies toe ...
And I hope that you are not going to use my comments as more ammunition ...
Wouldn't it be really nice if we would all try to keep our personal bickering and attacks off Amp Garage?

Attached are some quotes from the Stanford University on copyright and they should know. Maybe it'll help.


Peter


P.S. Most of you might (should) remember that you agreed to the following rules, when you signed up here:

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

But some of you did! Where are the ADMINISTRATORS? And why aren't you doing your anything about all this?

[dogears]

Hi Peter,

I am a mod. In reading Jesse's letter to Rob, I side with Rob. Jesse demanded removal under threat of implied legal action. He set the ball rolling in the direction it has taken.

Instead of thanking Rob for his contributions to Dumbledom for a decade, he threatens. Is it not possible that Jesse knew about some pictures due to Rob's site? Then got whatever "OK" from the source? How about the $ amount he demanded? Is this OK with you? Sounds like extortion.... My guess is that Jesse got some readily available useage right for almost no $ and is now looking to make $$ off of it. I am shocked you came on here and are trying to defend Jesse's extortive and heinous attempt at a money grab. He did not say please.... He demanded.

This is a tight community and if somebody is wronged or threatened, then prepare to have the members support.

I will request the members to refrain from any personal attacks.... This is not The Gear Page and we do not punish people for getting passionate in their comments. Just refrain from saying something you would not say in real life.

[M Fowler]

peter0184,

I don't know, this whole thread is really bizzare to me, and I don't really understand or need to understand what is going on between everyone but it really spoils the interest and fun I have being a member of Ampgarage when this kind of bickering goes on. We don't need the he said that you said crap.

You and Jesse could help me out by posting some information on the Dumble SSS, now that would be a great thread for a website dedicated to home built amplifiers, noval idea. My amps are not for resale but for my own enjoyment and collection without paying the rediculous prices from music dealers around the globe. Perhaps Mr. Dumble should build some amps in the $4000. price range and make some money of himself instead of the dealers making all the profit.

Fire up the soldering iron gentlemen and you too Jana.

Mark

[butwhatif]

peter0184,

I don't know, this whole thread is really bizzare to me, and I don't really understand or need to understand what is going on between everyone but it really spoils the interest and fun I have being a member of Ampgarage when this kind of bickering goes on. We don't need the he said that you said crap.

You and Jesse could help me out by posting some information on the Dumble SSS, now that would be a great thread for a website dedicated to home built amplifiers, noval idea. My amps are not for resale but for my own enjoyment and collection without paying the rediculous prices from music dealers around the globe. Perhaps Mr. Dumble should build some amps in the $4000. price range and make some money of himself instead of the dealers making all the profit.

Fire up the soldering iron gentlemen and you too Jana.

Mark

Think of the bundle he'd make on an affordable product, and the consultation fees and modifications---whew

[Allynmey]

Peter, very interesting reply. Of course you are wrong about most items. Jesse contacted me asking me to remove the picture from someones post within 5 days or he'll have his copyright attorney get involved. I asked:

1. Who are you?
2. What picture?
3. Please email me proof of ownership/copyright.

I told him that I would be happy to remove the picture if he could send me proof of ownership. Never happened going on 3 months now.

Are you his US representative? you seem to have knowledge of all e-mails exchanged between Jesse and a number of people involved.

I also don't think you need to defend Dumble here since my understanding is he isn't too happy about the book being published.

[ChrisM]

Here we go...........!