New ReleaSSSes

[Max]

If you were to order an SSS from Had tomorrow would you request that your variant be equipped with the Driver tube in a 100w 6l6 version...If so what is it about this perticular circuit that adds or subtracts to your enjoyment of playing an SSS with this feature .. Also if you have a favorite tube compliment you prefer For this mod (12au/bh7 etc etc) what would that be and again briefly why?..

Tony, four answers:

1- I wouldn't order an amp from a custom builder, like Alexander Dumble, in such a way at all:

I wouldn't specify technical details like a tube compliment or a certain output power, like "please build me a 100W amp" etc. I wouldn't even specify a "model" like: "Please build me a SSS".

Instead of this I would just try to explain (and perhaps demonstrate by playing and referring to some recordings etc.) what kind of timbre and feel I would like to get in the end, what features I would like (Tremolo/Vibrato would perhaps be on my list e.g.), and what I would need in regard to stage volume etc. Then I would leave it completely up to the builder to decide what technical specifications my personal custom made amp needs to be able to make me happy.

2 - The member of the Dumbleland/SSS family I personally know that's closest to what's my personal taste is a Dumbleland Special 150W. So it has a 12AU7 phase inverter and a 12BH7 driver.

3 - From listening to recordings and live concerts I like very much:
Jackson Browne's Dumbleland Special 150W used by SRV for the "Texas Flood" recordings (12AU7 phase inverter, 12BH7 driver)
Larry Carlton's SSS used for the "Renegade Gentleman" recordings (technical specs unknown to me)
SRV's "King Tone Consoul" SSS 150W (reportedly 12AU7 phase inverter and 12BH7 driver, but this may be just a rumor)
The Dumbleland(s) 300SL used by Christopher Cross (12AU7 phase inverter, 2 x 12BH7 driver).

4 - In regard to Dumble ODS amps with such an inverter / driver configuration I liked an ODS 150W very much (7025 inverter and 7025 driver).

All the best,

Max

[LeftyStrat]

There is a new entry in the Dumble files section that might be of interest to members.

[talbany]

Max
Thanks for the detailed response..One more thing. I am preparing to build my version of an SSS and am contemplating whether or not to include the driver section in my personal build... Any advice you might have on this would be appreciated!!!

Tony

[David Root]

Lefty, that looks like the #002 schematic Gary mentioned earlier. There is a word in Japanese below the hi-filter and the AC power is marked 102V, which is right for Japan. Thanx for posting it, don't know where you got it but I've not seen it before.

The bias voltages on the driver grids are either reversed or wrong, shows the cathode as negative to the grid. Quite a few component values are different.

It looks rather more complicated than #004, but is generally similar I think at a quick once-over. Filters have different cap & resistor values than #004.

Gary, you still here??

[LeftyStrat]

Lefty, that looks like the #002 schematic Gary mentioned earlier. There is a word in Japanese below the hi-filter and the AC power is marked 102V, which is right for Japan.

The bias voltages on the driver grids are either reversed or wrong, shows the cathode as negative to the grid. Quite a few component values are different.

It looks rather more complicated than #004, but is generally similar I think at a quick once-over. Filters have different cap & resistor values than #004.

Gary, you still here??

I didn't get this from Gary, but perhaps the same source?

[LeftyStrat]

It looks rather more complicated than #004, but is generally similar I think at a quick once-over. Filters have different cap & resistor values than #004.

So where is the schematic for #004?

[Max]

...whether or not to include the driver section in my personal build... Any advice you might have on this would be appreciated!!!

Tony, I would recommend to build a 150W or 300W (DL 300SL) version and to include the driver section. Reasons:

1 - IMO the dynamics delivered by the 150W and 300W amps make a lot of sense for such a kind of amp.

2 - If your chassis is prepared for a driver tube and it should turn out that you don't like this configuration, it would be easier to try how you like it without the driver tube than if you start with a chassis that's prepared for just one PI tube.

3 - AFAIK the Singers without the driver section a rare beasts. And as all are custom built to suit the personal taste of some player, the driver section will perhaps be needed to achieve a timbre and feel that's in accord with the personal taste of a higher number of players (in a statistical sense).

If you think that you'll probably prefer a tone that's perhaps a bit more elegant, silky or velvet and transparent, then I would recommend to try at first a Dumbleland power section with the 12AU7 inverter and 12BH7 driver. If you shouldn't like this, you could perhaps try then a 7025 inverter and 7025 driver configuration.

If you think that you'll probably prefer an earlier break up of the power amp and perhaps a little bit more hair on top of the tone, then I would recommend to start with the 7025 inverter / 7025 driver configuration and change this to the 12AU7 / 12BH7 configuration if you shouldn't like it.

But perhaps it might be necessary changing larger parts of the circuit (perhaps including the PT and the OT) when changing the circuit from a 12AU7 / 12BH7 configuration to a 7025 / 7025 configuration (vice versa).

Cheers and have a great weekend,

Max

[wjdunham]

Here's some information that may help that hasn't been articulated very coherently:
There are two main differences between the #002 (Mayer's) and the #004 (Sterling/Ceriatone) amp. One is the CF driver stage in the power amp (common knowledge), the other is the DC coupled CF stages in the mixer (not so common knowledge). #002 (and #001 which is very similar), has these stages, #004 doesn't. This will have a the largest bearing on the tone and feel of the amps. In theory, #004 should be "cleaner" than #002, but the definition of "clean" doesn't mean the same thing in this case due to the type of distortion introduced by the DC coupled CF stages. See the Aiken site for the basics on DC coupled cathode followers. There are other differences between the two, but the above is really the crux of it. Ignore all the other BS and read the Aiken articles.
Hope this helps.
Bill
www.sebagosound.com

[talbany]

Max/Bill
Thanks for your opinion..Right now I am on the fence as whether to add the CF driver for my personal amp. Opinions seem to very here as to how much of a role this circuit plays (especially with 6L's)..From what I have been able to gather the driver stage will help with string articulation as well as help keep the tone (low end) focused (at lower volumes) until of coarse you reach the point of driving the follower into 2nd order and possibly adding some compression as well although I don't plan on running the amp at that high a volume..
I would tend to believe as Bill does that the CF mixer as in 002 has a greater impact on the overall velvety feel texture seeing that it's later in the preamp is more prone to clip compress and generate the desired 2nd order harmonics as well as lower the impedance to help with loading..


Thanks guy's

Tony

[10thTx]

Schematic was edited and reposted later in this thread.

[LeftyStrat]

10thTx, thanks so much for these!

[Max]

I would tend to believe as Bill does that the CF mixer as in 002 has a greater impact on the overall velvety feel texture.

Tony, AFAIK and R most of the 100W and 150W Steel String Singers, all the Dumblelands 150W and 300W and all the ODS 150W have this kind of recovery stage after the filters (ODS 150W: after the tone stack and the OD circuit), and all the different specimens of these amps I know have IMO a rather different timbre and feel. So if this kind of recovery stage (and sometimes mixer if the amp has a reverb) should really have a great impact on the overall timbre and feel of all these amps, in my personal perception this still doesn't lead to a similar "voice" of these amps.

In the contrary: All the specimens of these amps I know have a very individual character and "voice" - an ODS 150W e.g. has IMO a rather different clean "voice" compared with the clean "voice" of a Dumbleland 150W.

So I have some doubts if it isn't a bit too much of a simplification to break down the individual character of the voice of one of these "big" Dumble amps into some detail of their circuit like this recovery stage after the filters or this inverter / driver configuration etc.

My personal impression when playing these amps - and some of them over longer periods of time - has always been that they all work like completely intergrated individual one of a kind systems. So I have some doubts if it will lead to a deeper understanding of the individual charcater of these "big" amps to look upon them as jigsaw puzzles of some "Dumble modules" (I hope you'll understand what I try to make clear by using this metaphoric exaggertion).

All the best and lots of fun building your personal version of a SSS!

Max

[dreric]

Thanks 10thtx!!!!!!!!!!

Eric

[grtamp]

great work 10thtx , but the filter circuit needs clarification on contacts used!
thanks

[qtone]

I guess the only way TAG members will ever get a schematic of the SSS is to buy a clone and blueprint it.

Pretty much the way it is and has to be it seems.
It cost alot of money to peek I know that...

Hard to tell from the clips but I think something is missing
from the SSS across the pond..

Just not the same as the full on version to my ears.
again ive only heard the full on version so im biased.





"Permatex belongs in car engines not amps"