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[heisthl]

Sorry to derail but I really like this tune and tone that Garth recorded.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=8287110

Thanks - same design for both clips, Garth had the amp for a couple of days before he recorded this clip and Davis Causey only spent about 2 minutes with the amp before he recorded the other clip and it's just human nature to gravitate to endless distorted sustain. That said, he did get that Rhodes tone with his strat that I didn't even imagine could be done. I need to get a clip of this design that shows off the amazing clean sustain.

[Funkalicousgroove]

Are you comparing apples to apples? IE are there EL34 Tubes and appropriate Trannies in the clones you are comparing to your Dumble? El34's have a different EQ curve all together.

are you comparing amps that are Skyline with Standard Overdrive?

Are you comparing 100W amps?

Same guitar, speakers, cables, effects?

You can take the ACTUAL measurement of your Mid cap (caps have a tolerance of +/- 20%) if it says .01uf but actually measures .00899 then you'd have more mids.

Hey Brandon. All of that does not seem to matter. Its across the board. My amp is a Skyline EL34. You played the Tan Dumble, and that has the lower mid thing as well to me. So did the Christopher Cross Dumble (6L6) and the Dumble 6L6 HRM combo. Its just the basic Dumble voice. The only amp that I have played that had it exactly right was the 6L6 Emerald Pro Prototype, but that amp did one tone, and one tone only. Almost useless for anything else but THAT tone, and the cleans were awful. Maybe just switching around the different values will get me what I am hearing. I feel bad for you guys, as this S*it can drive you NUTS. It becomes an obsession.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree, the Christopher Cross amp sounds nothing like the Tan amp, and as I recall was kinda "buzzy" it's new owner sent it to me for some tweaks a while back. I think the nameplate may be causing auditory hallucinations Also an amp in need of tubes or filter caps will have that kinda Dull top end and lack low end punch, effectively making the remaining middy mush seem more pronounced.

That taken into account, I've recently built an amp out of old stock parts and old stock Iron and was able to capture the missing "feel" of some of the early 80's dumbles I've played, I attribute it mostly to the old broken in Iron- It "gives" when you lean into it.

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[butwhatif]

the .01 provides ice pick mids, .

Not possible - there is nothing "ice picky" about using a .01 listen to almost every Dumble Skyliner ever made.

Maybe ice picky is the wrong definition, but it's not a sound i like, does anyone turn up the mid with an .01 in there? Maybe with a darker speaker? I think most guys let .01 operate as a hi mid scoop than as a hi mid boost. It shifts some low mid in, but not that controllable. With a .047 it can be a mid scoop, or a fatter mid to work with the bass to offset the treble. Works for me, for fusion/jazz/blues i turn it up, for country down.

[heisthl]

the .01 provides ice pick mids, .

Not possible - there is nothing "ice picky" about using a .01 listen to almost every Dumble Skyliner ever made.

Maybe ice picky is the wrong definition, but it's not a sound i like, does anyone turn up the mid with an .01 in there? Maybe with a darker speaker? I think most guys let .01 operate as a hi mid scoop than as a hi mid boost. It shifts some low mid in, but not that controllable. With a .047 it can be a mid scoop, or a fatter mid to work with the bass to offset the treble. Works for me, for fusion/jazz/blues i turn it up, for country down.

Yep, Nope , very controllable, nothing fat about using a .047 and there is not really enough lower bass when you use the .047 unless you make the slope resistor smaller. Any chance your switch is a. backwards or b. paralleling the 2 values?

[Structo]

Ok,
these two plots are the difference between a .01uf and .05uf mid cap.

The Mid control is at zero for both plots.

The green trace is the .05uf cap and the red trace is the .01uf.

You can see how the .01uf shifts the mid frequencies higher by about 400Hz and also about a 12db change in amplitude.

[butwhatif]

Not possible - there is nothing "ice picky" about using a .01 listen to almost every Dumble Skyliner ever made.

Maybe ice picky is the wrong definition, but it's not a sound i like, does anyone turn up the mid with an .01 in there? Maybe with a darker speaker? I think most guys let .01 operate as a hi mid scoop than as a hi mid boost. It shifts some low mid in, but not that controllable. With a .047 it can be a mid scoop, or a fatter mid to work with the bass to offset the treble. Works for me, for fusion/jazz/blues i turn it up, for country down.

Yep, Nope , very controllable, nothing fat about using a .047 and there is not really enough lower bass when you use the .047 unless you make the slope resistor smaller. Any chance your switch is a. backwards or b. paralleling the 2 values?

a/no, and b/ no. -only installed a few hundred of them, I have tried a smaller slope, but it scoops too much, 150k works in this amp. There is enough bass if u use 20uf byp caps on CL1+2 , .047 coupling caps, and an evm, got some to spare. The .047 mid cap helps create the low mid mush we all like-especially with a real 50s paf bridge pu, which is midrangey already in a good way. For single coils w/bottom punch, it has to be turned down a bit. Great OD mid with it. But then I can't stand thin sounding amps.
.

[heisthl]

installed a few hundred of them,
.

who are you building for?

[butwhatif]

30+ year's worth of mods, builds not much right at the moment

[talbany]

Ok,
these two plots are the difference between a .01uf and .05uf mid cap.

The Mid control is at zero for both plots.

The green trace is the .05uf cap and the red trace is the .01uf.

You can see how the .01uf shifts the mid frequencies higher by about 400Hz and also about a 12db change in amplitude.

The mid pot on the skyliner does one thing... varies the RC time constant set up by the mid cap( like a guitars tone pot ) ..The larger the cap the wider the mid range band being shunted .. ... Since the mid pot is isolated from the rest of the stack there is less interaction unlike a Fender stack whereby lifting the mids there effects both treble and bass frequencys... Basicially lifting the whole stack Skyliner doesn't do this..This is one of the reasons the Skyline does't have quite the gain as the Fender...If you go to the Fender calculator increase the mid control and see how it effects all frequencys..The Fender tone stack calculation really applies mostly to the Bluesmaster. ...For me if the amp sounds a little midrangy sitting on my bench it's usually perfect when I put it in a band setting...You'll find it easier to play and hear yourself better..Especially w/ a horn section or a loud keyboard..Bring on the 01

Tony

[heisthl]

Tweaking tonestacks is a perception in that if you scoop the mids now your going to hear a more pronounced low end and top end (This may be why it sounds icepicky to you) Tony

Except he was saying the .01 sounded ice picky which is why I disagreed with what he was saying. Hey it's just common sense - on a skyliner the mid and bass paths are in parallel and the closer you make the mid cap value to the bass cap value the less the bass control does because some of those frequencies are already gone.

[LPSGME]

Ummm? Isn't the schematic that Structo is showing along with the graphs something other than a Skyline? Isn't there a difference in what the mid cap and pot do in a Skyline compared to the schematic being shown?

In any case I (personally) didn't find the youtube clip that Steven referenced all that remarkable: I emphasis personally, as it is all and merely a matter of personal taste and nothing more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUevIQLWKTg

Comparatively, I (personally) found the clip that Structo referenced better, but it also didn't seem that remarkable to me either:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=8287110

What I do find remarkable is the sound in the the clip that Henry posted:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8458490

and also that Brandon posted (in another recent thread):
https://tubeamparchive.com/download/file.php?id=10180

Sometimes I wish you guys (Brandon and Henry) would accidently reveal your secrets - or at least plainly point in the direction to look. For example... you don't have to say the mid cap has to exactly .013 on the skyline EQ, but maybe just to say to play with that cap and whatever else is essential; or say that it's 'all' in the iron etc.

I was able to get my Ceriatone much improved, but it still doesn't have as much of that 'horn' like tone that I would like to get and hear in Henry's and Brandon's amps.

Not that their sound desired or liked by everyone. But is does seem to be a bit more usual and harder to achieve or stumble into (IMHO).

[talbany]

Tweaking tonestacks is a perception in that if you scoop the mids now your going to hear a more pronounced low end and top end (This may be why it sounds icepicky to you) Tony

Except he was saying the .01 sounded ice picky which is why I disagreed with what he was saying. Hey it's just common sense - on a skyliner the mid and bass paths are in parallel and the closer you make the mid cap value to the bass cap value the less the bass control does because some of those frequencies are already gone.

I read that wrong thought he said the .047 was picky,,, I read his post again and got it the 2nd time.. Revised it too late you pasted..