It is certainly puzzling. But, it could be the power supply as suggested. I remember reading that some audiophiles bypass the electrolytic filter caps with small valued cap which are faster acting. The post OD tone control is 150k away from V2B's plate so who knows if it could interact. I tried a .02 uF with the trimmer set to 0 and could hear no change in my clean sound.
And, to wrap up the original story, after going round and round for hours, I left the amp the way it was because it seems to be the best compromise. Ideally a two channel amp would have two totally independent channels. 😀
Gil
glasman wrote:
marcos wrote:
Charlie Wilson wrote:Yeah Gil I started at the schematic till my eyes crossed and the only thing I can think of is the power supply. My amp has been completely rebuilt(not for this reason) and still the same effect. It is pretty subtle but I do hear it. I thought I was going nuts and then Marcos confirmed a similar effect. The effect happens also when I increase the snubber values. I know I have belabored this topic but I hear it and cant deny it and do not think there are any issues with the amp.
CW
As I have said a number of times, I have found that implementing a post-OD
tone control, regardless of cap value or setting, has a subtle effect on the clean tone. I felt that circuit with the .02 cap discussed here was quite noticable in this respect. BTW I tried this circuit a long time ago,
I liked it best with the pot at maximum setting, it still rolls off some
high end.
Marcos
PS: Speaking of subtle effects on tone, whatever happened to Dogears?
Doesn't sound right, the control Gil is talking about in on the Overdrive Level or ratio control, which is out of circuit in Clean mode. I would understand if it was connected to the Master control.
Gary
Dogears is around, check The gear page, he just got a new Collins and has a renewed playing interest.
Gil
Another alternative might be? Stick in another small relay board and snap out the bright cap when you go to OD..Just a thought..
glad you got it worked out..
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Since Gil started this thread I have been playing around with the HF taper quite a bit and I have a couple of observations. Correct me if I am wrong but using larger than .001 doesn't seem to roll of more highs but starts rolling off high mids and mid mids depending on how large the cap is. I say this because I played through #94 and it does have a rather dark gainy crunchy overdrive and I noticed the crunchy thing in my amp with the .02. I think maybe Dumble's idea was to tame the mid bump and get back a little definition you loose by using a 1 meg OD entrance trimmer. I have a rather bright EJ Stratocaster and I started to like what the .02 did with the sound of my guitar. The problem is that it also strips gain from the OD and my OD started getting quieter than I wanted relative to my clean volume. The other thing is that it probably should be set at full playing volume as it sounds different at a lower volume. I think Aaron came up with an evil genius solution for that (see his 102 as Lowplate post). My amp definitely needs it so I will have to settle on something. Oh yeah, I for some reason am not noticing the treble roll off in the clean as much as I was before. Steve suggested I try Jensen electrolytics and maybe that did help. The amp also sustains a little nicer with those caps. At $16.00 a pop plus shipping from Canada they better do something good .
CW
talbany wrote:Gil
Another alternative might be? Stick in another small relay board and snap out the bright cap when you go to OD..Just a thought..
glad you got it worked out..
Tony
I hear you, the bright on clean only mod. The one thing that makes me lazy about it is having to drill the chassis and mounting the thing towards the back, since the front of the amp is so crowded. That would mean needing to use shielded cables, etc. I may just do this, but I've also wondered what to do with the other half of the relay. I wouldn't just put a 2P2T relay to use only one pole.
Charlie Wilson wrote:Since Gil started this thread I have been playing around with the HF taper quite a bit and I have a couple of observations. Correct me if I am wrong but using larger than .001 doesn't seem to roll of more highs but starts rolling off high mids and mid mids depending on how large the cap is. I say this because I played through #94 and it does have a rather dark gainy crunchy overdrive and I noticed the crunchy thing in my amp with the .02. I think maybe Dumble's idea was to tame the mid bump and get back a little definition you loose by using a 1 meg OD entrance trimmer. I have a rather bright EJ Stratocaster and I started to like what the .02 did with the sound of my guitar. The problem is that it also strips gain from the OD and my OD started getting quieter than I wanted relative to my clean volume. The other thing is that it probably should be set at full playing volume as it sounds different at a lower volume. I think Aaron came up with an evil genius solution for that (see his 102 as Lowplate post). My amp definitely needs it so I will have to settle on something. Oh yeah, I for some reason am not noticing the treble roll off in the clean as much as I was before. Steve suggested I try Jensen electrolytics and maybe that did help. The amp also sustains a little nicer with those caps. At $16.00 a pop plus shipping from Canada they better do something good .
CW
That was what I had thought years ago when I had originally tried the HF trim, cap values higher than .001uF had "side effects." I thought the same thing again last weekend, when I wrote that the OD got crunchier the larger the cap used in the HF trim. It's probably best to think of these amps as glorified one-channel affairs, me thinks.
That's very ingenious, I had seen it done here before -- maybe your amp, maybe Mark Abbott's? At the end of the day, what really bothers me is that the real amps didn't need any bandaids like we're discussing here.
G.
Structo wrote:I know this is a bit hacky but I have four relays in my 100w ODS.
I stacked two relays.
Mid boost, OD and PAB on the footswitch.
When I added the bright on clean only relay (far right) I didn't have a good board to use.
I have a nice pcb board now that I need to replace that with and will stack the two relays on the right.
Gil, mount the relay board on the side of the amp near the first gain control. Works like a charm.
ayan wrote:
talbany wrote:Gil
Another alternative might be? Stick in another small relay board and snap out the bright cap when you go to OD..Just a thought..
glad you got it worked out..
Tony
I hear you, the bright on clean only mod. The one thing that makes me lazy about it is having to drill the chassis and mounting the thing towards the back, since the front of the amp is so crowded. That would mean needing to use shielded cables, etc. I may just do this, but I've also wondered what to do with the other half of the relay. I wouldn't just put a 2P2T relay to use only one pole.
Charlie Wilson wrote:Since Gil started this thread I have been playing around with the HF taper quite a bit and I have a couple of observations. Correct me if I am wrong but using larger than .001 doesn't seem to roll of more highs but starts rolling off high mids and mid mids depending on how large the cap is. I say this because I played through #94 and it does have a rather dark gainy crunchy overdrive and I noticed the crunchy thing in my amp with the .02. I think maybe Dumble's idea was to tame the mid bump and get back a little definition you loose by using a 1 meg OD entrance trimmer. I have a rather bright EJ Stratocaster and I started to like what the .02 did with the sound of my guitar. The problem is that it also strips gain from the OD and my OD started getting quieter than I wanted relative to my clean volume. The other thing is that it probably should be set at full playing volume as it sounds different at a lower volume. I think Aaron came up with an evil genius solution for that (see his 102 as Lowplate post). My amp definitely needs it so I will have to settle on something. Oh yeah, I for some reason am not noticing the treble roll off in the clean as much as I was before. Steve suggested I try Jensen electrolytics and maybe that did help. The amp also sustains a little nicer with those caps. At $16.00 a pop plus shipping from Canada they better do something good .
CW
That was what I had thought years ago when I had originally tried the HF trim, cap values higher than .001uF had "side effects." I thought the same thing again last weekend, when I wrote that the OD got crunchier the larger the cap used in the HF trim. It's probably best to think of these amps as glorified one-channel affairs, me thinks.
Gil
Located in the St Croix River Valley- Afton, MN
About 5 miles south of I-94
aka K0GWA, K0 Glas Werks Amplification www.glaswerks.com
The snag is that I have the FET board on the side by the input jack, so this would have to go on the side and by the V1 tube socket. We'll see, I have the relay board ready to go, I just have to pull out my drill and get busy. 😀
Gil
glasman wrote:Gil, mount the relay board on the side of the amp near the first gain control. Works like a charm.
ayan wrote:
talbany wrote:Gil
Another alternative might be? Stick in another small relay board and snap out the bright cap when you go to OD..Just a thought..
glad you got it worked out..
Tony
I hear you, the bright on clean only mod. The one thing that makes me lazy about it is having to drill the chassis and mounting the thing towards the back, since the front of the amp is so crowded. That would mean needing to use shielded cables, etc. I may just do this, but I've also wondered what to do with the other half of the relay. I wouldn't just put a 2P2T relay to use only one pole.
Charlie Wilson wrote:Since Gil started this thread I have been playing around with the HF taper quite a bit and I have a couple of observations. Correct me if I am wrong but using larger than .001 doesn't seem to roll of more highs but starts rolling off high mids and mid mids depending on how large the cap is. I say this because I played through #94 and it does have a rather dark gainy crunchy overdrive and I noticed the crunchy thing in my amp with the .02. I think maybe Dumble's idea was to tame the mid bump and get back a little definition you loose by using a 1 meg OD entrance trimmer. I have a rather bright EJ Stratocaster and I started to like what the .02 did with the sound of my guitar. The problem is that it also strips gain from the OD and my OD started getting quieter than I wanted relative to my clean volume. The other thing is that it probably should be set at full playing volume as it sounds different at a lower volume. I think Aaron came up with an evil genius solution for that (see his 102 as Lowplate post). My amp definitely needs it so I will have to settle on something. Oh yeah, I for some reason am not noticing the treble roll off in the clean as much as I was before. Steve suggested I try Jensen electrolytics and maybe that did help. The amp also sustains a little nicer with those caps. At $16.00 a pop plus shipping from Canada they better do something good .
CW
That was what I had thought years ago when I had originally tried the HF trim, cap values higher than .001uF had "side effects." I thought the same thing again last weekend, when I wrote that the OD got crunchier the larger the cap used in the HF trim. It's probably best to think of these amps as glorified one-channel affairs, me thinks.
Yeah I hear ya!!..Once I get an amp sounding good and get used to it I dont like screwing with it either..
Another thing you might be able to do with the other side of the relay (if you can get it close enough to the input volume) so that you can preset the input control (with some math and a few resistors) so you can raise and lower the value of the tail of the pot when you go to OD? (well off ground shouldn't pop.)..If memory serves I think it was you that liked the input control raised a bit when you go to OD.. I have never done this myself but am sure you could make it work..Anyway just throwing out some ideas..
Have fun with the drill..
T
Last edited by talbany on Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Yes, that was me that said that I preferred the preamp volume higher in OD than in clean. Thanks for the reminder, Tony... And BTW, you may have to buy a ticket to fly to L.A. New "Fresh Cream" project in the works, first gig penciled in for September 12th....
G.
talbany wrote:Yeah I hear ya!!..Once I get an amp sounding good and get used to it I dont like screwing with it either..
Another thing you might be able to do with the other side of the relay (if you can get it close enough to the input volume) so that you can preset the input control (with some math and a few resistors) so you can raise and lower the value of that pot when you go to OD? (shouldn't pop.)..If memory serves I think it was you that liked the input control raised a bit when you go to OD.. I have never done this myself but am sure you could make it work..Anyway just throwing out some ideas..
You may want to wait for a later gig. Following in the actual band's footsteps, I think we will be able to only get one rehearsal in before the debut gig...the project is just coming together.
G.
talbany wrote:
BTW, you may have to buy a ticket to fly to L.A. New "Fresh Cream" project in the works, first gig penciled in for September 12th.... Wink
Oh Man!! Thats cool!!..So glad that's coming together..I will do my best to be there!!..
ayan wrote:You may want to wait for a later gig. Following in the actual band's footsteps, I think we will be able to only get one rehearsal in before the debut gig...the project is just coming together.
G.
talbany wrote:
BTW, you may have to buy a ticket to fly to L.A. New "Fresh Cream" project in the works, first gig penciled in for September 12th.... Wink
Oh Man!! Thats cool!!..So glad that's coming together..I will do my best to be there!!..
Talk soon..T
Cool!.. The wife and I maybe planning a trip to Maui around that time(with a stop over in LA) for a few days..Keep me posted!
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Hello, OK I have tried every single variation of the HF taper in my Low Plate Classic and decided that I don't really care for it no matter what cap or how I set it. It just takes to much of that lively stuff on the top end that I like. The amp is almost there without it and this is without the loop and with a rather bright EJ Stratocaster. I going to leave the amp as is until I complete a Dumbleator and/or adjust the guitars volume and tone to smooth things out just a tad.
CW
.
Following in the actual band's footsteps, I think we will be able to only get one rehearsal in before the debut gig...the project is just coming together.